Repost -- Found exact eTap2hw setting for Flingel Bunt

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Repost -- Found exact eTap2hw setting for Flingel Bunt

Postby Bojan » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:37 pm

I posted this under eTap2hw demo files but then realized that not enough people might see it, so I am also reposting it on the general eTap2hw forum.

Tonight as I was watching the "Just Hank Marvin" video on YouTube when Hank was demonstrating his echo for Flingel Bunt, I realized that the echo setting I had been using was nowhere near Hank's echo. My setting was a Vox Long Tom emulation: program 4 . . . level 3 . . . mode B . . . and repeat 3 . . . and as far as I have seen, most of the other eTap2hw users used a similar echo setting.

I tried all the Vox Long Tom combinations and finally ruled them all out. Then I went through all the Echomatic II settings and still nothing. Then I thought, Hank could not have used the earlier echoes for Flingel Bunt and the only remaining option was program 6 -- the Roland 301 !! And surely enough, that was it !! I found that the best setting was 6 4 E 4.

Try it !! Set your eTap2hw to 6 ... 4 ... E ... 4 ...

and then go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kaVxgey9w4 and listen (13'44") and try it. It's exactly the same !!!

Regards,
Bojan
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Re: Repost -- Found exact eTap2hw setting for Flingel Bunt

Postby Detailed Infinity » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:55 pm

Yes you're right Bo. Tried the settings myself.

Bri
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Re: Repost -- Found exact eTap2hw setting for Flingel Bunt

Postby fenderplucker » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:38 am

Hi Bojan,

"Hank made that video in 1997 when he was indeed using a Roland. However that is a completely different echo to the one used on the original."

EDIT :Please disregard this comment. See revised post below.

Regards,

paul.
Last edited by fenderplucker on Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Repost -- Found exact eTap2hw setting for Flingel Bunt

Postby Bojan » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:12 pm

fenderplucker wrote:Hi Bojan,

Hank made that video in 1997 when he was indeed using a Roland. However that is a completely different echo to the one used on the original.

Regards,

paul.

Hi Paul, thanks for responding. Your input is always valuable and indeed, authoritative.

After your post I listened to my CD version of Flingel Bunt (from the Early Years 6CD set). The echoes are only on the left channel while the right channel has only the dry guitar sound. I listened to the left channel only, and I listened very carefully, and I could be wrong, but to me the echo on that recording and on Hank's video sounded exactly the same.

Also, I assume you saw the entire video, especially the part where Hank talks about his echo settings for the various Shadows tunes. The echo that he demonstrates for Apache (08'19") is spot on. Then for Atlantis (11'30") he plays a totally different echo, which he describes as faster and "shimmering" . . Then for Kon-Tiki (16"07') he uses a third echo pattern (with the wop wop wop at the end), and he goes on to demonstrate the different echoes used in many other early tunes, including Flingel Bunt. I don't doubt that he was using a Roland at the time he made the video, in 1997, but I also don't see how he could have used the Roland for demonstrating the echoes from the early period since the Roland cannot produce such echo patterns. It would seem logical to me that he was using some programmed echo unit.

Regards,
Bojan
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Re: Repost -- Found exact eTap2hw setting for Flingel Bunt

Postby fenderplucker » Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:33 pm

Hi Bojan,

Thanks for prompting me to look further! Analyzing the echoes from all the various tunes it is indeed obvious that Hank was in fact using an Alesis Q2 with EFTP that was introduced at around that time. As you say the echoes for Wonderful Land etc have the right repeat pattern. However, If I remember rightly, the EFTP patch for Flingel Bunt was just the normal Echomatic 2 with an added echo at about 430mSec, giving that double bump echo after the power chords that Hank talks about. However, such a machine never existed and that double bump as he describes it is not there on the original (and don't be mislead by the drum beat). The only patterns that fit the measured RFFB echoes are an Echomatic 2 runniung at slow speed (possible, since that was the echo pattern on Zambesi, which was recorded a few days after RFFB) or Long Tom (and there is some evidence that Hank was playing with a Long Tom at around that time), with the repeats from the latter seeming to give a slightly better overall match to the original.

Regards,

paul.
Last edited by fenderplucker on Mon Jun 09, 2014 4:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Repost -- Found exact eTap2hw setting for Flingel Bunt

Postby Bojan » Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:50 pm

Paul, I understand what you're saying but I'm confused, because in the video Hank explains the RFFB echo and he says that he developed that echo to match the intro riff, and then he goes on to play that riff and then he even sings the echo (a-a, a-a). Before that he said that a "fan in the UK created a software program for the Alesis by sampling the echoes from the original records..." or something to that effect, and so when Hank demonstrated the RFFB echo in the video he was demonstrating the echo that he claims is like the original . . . otherwise he would have said that it was not exactly like the original but close, or something to that effect . . .

Listen to the attached file with the original intro isolated on the left channel , and then compare it to the one Hank is demonstrating. I think they sound the same. As I said, I could be wrong.

Finally, without asking you to divulge any professional secrets, perhaps you could explain what solution you used when programming the RFFB echo into your TVS3. I went to your Juke Box but could not find RFFB, so, if you have some spare time (and don't mind), you could just record a clip of the intro through your TVS3 without any BT. I know I would like to hear it.

In addition to the original intro, I am also attaching the intro, without any BT, as I recorded it a few minutes ago. As I said, to me, they all (the original, hank's video, and my recording) sound about the same. It would really be nice if someone else would take the time to make a comparison, and tell us what they think . . . after all, this is what we are about here :D :D
Attachments
Bojan RFFB intro.mp3
(214.72 KiB) Downloaded 251 times
RFFB.mp3
(133.93 KiB) Downloaded 228 times
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Re: Repost -- Found exact eTap2hw setting for Flingel Bunt

Postby fenderplucker » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:33 am

Hi Bojan,

The "fan" that Hank refers to is of course Charlie Hall. Charlie did a great job of analyzing many Shadows tracks and making the lovely rippling echoes available to us all for the first time in a reasonably accurate form using the Q2's programming capabilities. However, with our better knowledge of the workings of the echo machines used by Hank at the time and much better analysis techniques, it has become evident that not all of those earlier analyses were completely correct. I certainly don't wish to get involved in a who's right and who's wrong argument; I fell for that a while ago and, even though I presented the analysis data in full, it was never accepted in certain quarters.

I know what Hank says in the video in relation to RFFB, but it is not consistent with analysis of the original track. The apparently double echo comes from the double da-da chords, one predominant echo from each chord with a delay of around 450 mSec. There are also numerous other echoes at lower levels and I said above how these might have come about.

RFFB is number 85 on the TVS jukebox.

Regards,

Paul.
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Re: Repost -- Found exact eTap2hw setting for Flingel Bunt

Postby ecca » Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:52 pm

Bojan - you're right.
This is the best Flingel echo I've heard.
Better than the Q20, which I've owned.
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Re: Repost -- Found exact eTap2hw setting for Flingel Bunt

Postby ecca » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:39 pm

Do we have any actual repeat timings for RFFB ?
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Re: Repost -- Found exact eTap2hw setting for Flingel Bunt

Postby dave robinson » Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:22 pm

I once cracked TRAFOFB using the eTap2 but forgot the settings now.
The Hall & Collins does it pretty good.
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