Kinman Hx pickups

[Strummer]

I have a friend who I see once a month at a guitar club I go to. He was playing a Burns "one off" last night and we were talking about the useless Rezomatics that were put on the Burns Apache (we both own one!) he fitted Kinman HX's to his and I want to do the same as the sound is quite incredible and VERY Hankish.

Now, ther are one or two HX's about the P90's and the 85's. I believe the P90's are generally used in Gibson's etc. Whereas the 85's are Strat based. Is this true please. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I just need a definition on what would be the "correct" HX's for my Burns Apache.

Thank you guys

Strummer (Arthur)

[dave robinson]

Sorry to pour water on this Arthur, but the sound is generally in the player rather than the pickups. Before spending any money I would seriously look at myself and the way I play and set up the equipment. I don't own a burns Apache, but I do have The Marvin and Shadows Anniversary, both of which the pickups sound exquisite. It concerns me that you speak of P90 pickups as an option, I really think you should re-assess the way you are setting up your gear, it may save you a lot of money.
Any 'Apache' owners out there to offer advice ?

[petercreasey]

I have reçently aquired an Apache which joins my Marvin and Shadows Custom in the collection and can only agree with Dave Please don't change these awesome pickups!!!! Make sure that you are getting the best out of them look at your set up pick up height amp settings etc etc I can assure you whatever you are looking to tweek it ain't changing the pickups.......... save your money..... twiddle


Take care

[Tone]

Hi Arthur

Just to add to what Dave and Peter have said. I'm surprised that you refer to the Rezomatic pickups as "useless." I have a Marvin 40th Anniversary and the Rezomatics on that give a great "Hank Burns Era" sound and if they were good enough for Hank they're good enough for me! I believe that the Rezomatics on the Apache are very similar so you should be able to get the same sound. And if you want to get a Strat sound then use a Strat although with a bit of amp tweaking you can get a Burns to sound like a Strat!

As regards Kinman pickups, I think the designation Hx applies to all models - think it simply means "Hum Cancelling" so you need to decide which is the right set for the sound you're after. I'm not knocking Kinmans - far from it. I have two Strats fitted with them and they're great for the "modern" Hank sound but if you're looking for the early vintage sound they won't give you it.

Finally, putting the question of Kinmans to one side, assuming you got the Burns to get the Burns sound (!) then why change the pickups? Stick with the ones you've got and play around with amp etc settings as Dave and Peter suggest.

Cheers.

Tony

[51 Relic]

HI that Burns could well have been a Burns Drifter fitted with Kinmans as standard PLEASE do not change the fitted pickups
Cheers

[David Martin]

Useless? Shame on you! Your amp settings are adrift... with the right settings on a Vox your Burns can sound like a Strat or Burns...

[neil2726]

I recall Colin PJ at last years Shadowmania swapping to his Burns and having to wind the volume down - he remarked he'd forgotten how hot the Burns pick ups were!

[JimN]

Arthur,

It's almost - but not quite - pointless asking questions like this, because the answer is always so subjective. On the other hand, I can sense exactly what you mean when you describe hearing a fantastic sound from this or that guitar and then wondering whether this or that mod will enable you get the same sound.

The two schools of thought usually encountered in reply are (a) "it's all in the fingers" (an over-simplification, in my view) and (b) "you've got to have exactly the same gear as Hank or as near as you can get" (an over-complication, in my view).

Given what you say about "useless" Rez-O-Matiks, I recognise your plea as meaning just one thing: you don't like the sound of the Burns pickups. Fine! There's no rule that says you have to. And if you'd be happier with a different set of pickups, there's nothing wrong with that either.

I'll give you a parallel instance. In 1999, I bought - on something of an impulse - a Squier Vista Series Jagmaster. Jaguar body and 24" scale neck, Stratocaster type tremolo bridge, simplified circuitry (equivalent to the lead circuit of the Jazzmaster) - and two open coil humbucker pickups. Over the next few years, I occasionally tried out that guitar at Shads nights and jam nights. To my ears, it sounded awful. A few other posters here have mentioned a P90-type mod for the Jagmaster and that seemed a good idea to me, because for a clear, resonant sound, I just don't like the sound of the Gibson-style humbucker (though I love it in other contexts). So I ordered a pair of custom made P90s in humbucker form-factor cases of white plastic and had them fitted (the scratchplate apertures had to have the corner radii changed, and I wasn't confident on that job). Coupled with a change in string gauge, that Jagmaster came back from the luthier's shop as an incredibly-improved instrument. Clear, penetrating (even Fender-style) tone, holding its tuning perfectly (as a result of a nut adjustment) - and sounding uncannily like the early Hank sound. Maybe a bit of that is in the fingers, but my fingers couldn't get it out of the guitar when it had the humbuckers fitted and that's a fact.

P90s, despite what others may say, can give a very convincing Fender sound. I also have another custom-made pair retro-fitted to a Jazzmaster, and that was improved out of all recognition as well. You ask which set of Kinmans you should fit. It seems to me that you already know the set you want: the same ones as fitted by your friend. Can you not ask him which set it was?

Then go for it. I bet you won't be sorry.

[cockroach]

JimN

A Chinese mate of mine (a great Shadows fan) played in our small Shads club gatherings for a few years until we stopped recently...he has a huge guitar collection and used to bring a different guitar every month (how did he hide them all from his missus I used to ask), using his regular echo/effects unit and amp.

Strats, Teles, Jaguar, Ovations, Epiphones, Tokai Talbo, and amongst many others, at least two humbucker Gibson Les Pauls...and he sounded THE SAME (clean clear Hank sound- sort of Wonderful Land era tone) regardless of which guitar he used...??????

Maybe it was his fingers, his taste, or touch...I don't know...but he seems to be able to get the sound he wants - his sound- playing any guitar...including playing my cheapo guitars when we swapped over for a try...

I tried a Gibson Les Paul Tribute with P-90's the other day in a shop...sounded pretty Fender like to me, more than any Gibson with humbuckers. I then tried a Squier Tele with two P-90's- similar but different to the Gibson...but not so wildly different from say, a regular Tele..

You pay your money and make your choice I 'spose!

[JimN]

I tried a Gibson Les Paul Tribute with P-90's the other day in a shop...sounded pretty Fender like to me, more than any Gibson with humbuckers.

That really supports my point. All I say (or ask) is that if the tone is all in the fingers, how can a Gibson LP with P90s sound different from one with humbuckers? And of course, they do...

On the other hand, I so easily recall all the people who were firmly of the opinion that Hank could never have used a 1960 Gretsch 6122 Country Gentleman on any Shadows material because the humbucking Filtertrons, the Bigsby and the switching circuitry all militated against it.

JN (who has several humbucker-equipped Gibsons, three guitars with P90s, a Filtertron-powered Gretsch and loads of Fenders...)