Which "sound" is "that" then?

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Re: Which "sound" is "that" then?

Postby Bojan » Mon Nov 17, 2014 3:02 am

strat21 wrote:Just read this old thread and just had to comment.I have in the past 12 years ,since I rediscovered The Shadows,or more accurately trying to emulate Hanks sound,old and new,I have heard approx 6 or 7 sounds with various players who have got it right or as close as dammit is to swearing.The closest was Justin Daish at Warwick Shadows club,using the Meazzi echo and a vox amp.That was almost as if the man himself was there.The secret is the vintage gear,but also a very good player,and Justin is just that a very good player.The other times were odd moments,a club band for want of a better description ,again with a Vox amp and a copy of EOTP and Wonderfull Land ,the intro was spot on,and Roger Bayliss playing Frightened City at the Hankies club one night.There have been others,and there will be more in the future,but Hank cant replicate it,and if he cant,what chance do mere mortals stand.Also,if the list at the start is right ,how can you have "The Holy Grail" of a sound if you keep moving the goalposts.

My advice would be if the "goalposts" are constantly moving -- and they are -- then you too must keep moving with them. The fact is that throughout their careers the Shads used many different amps and guitars and echo systems and recording styles, so when you say "THAT SOUND" you are actually talking about the recorded Shadows (Hank) sound FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL SONG. Hank's sound in let's say The Frightened City is radically different from his sound in Guitar Tango, and again totally different in Zambesi . . . He is not using the same amp, nor the same guitar, nor the same echo . . . But they are all Hank's sound, THAT SOUND.

So, if you want to "be Hank" in every Shadows song, you have to have his sound for that song. That is very possible today, thanks not only to today's digital technology, but to a number of extremely dedicated and clever people . . .

You can go out and buy a Vox AC 15/30, a Meazzi echo (if you can find one), and a Strat, and a Burns. That would give you a very good Hank sound, at least for some of the songs But you can cover more songs if instead of a Meazzi you bought a modern echo that emulates the many different Meazzi models used by Hank, and not only Meazzi, but also other echoes that he used, like the Roland 301 . . . That means buying a completely programmed echo machine that gives you the Hank echo for every song. There are several echo units like that to be purchased, some more expensive, with more sophisticated abilities, others cheaper but still great. New ones are coming out all the time. Also, you can use amp emulation devices and not even have to buy an amp.

Some people rely totally on computer programs, so-called VST plugins, so you need just a guitar and your PC. Go here https://www.youtube.com/user/springer16900 and listen to Christian and you will be amazed. His forum also has great information

http://vintage-sounds.freeforums.net/

So it all depends on what you want to do, you can choose to go hardware or software. Either way the choices are many and it has never been easier to get THAT SOUND than it is now.

Keep chasing those "goalposts" and keep practicing because sounding like Hank also requires playing like Hank! ;)

Regards,
Bojan
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Re: Which "sound" is "that" then?

Postby B Caine » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:08 am

Hi all, I don't post on here very much(too shy) but in my opinion if you listen to The Rapiers playing Wonderful Land on U Tube, I think they have nailed it, really have the early Shad's sound, only my opinion of course, it's a bit like what is the real "Fiesta Red"???? Brian.
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Re: Which "sound" is "that" then?

Postby Tigerdaisy » Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:09 pm

I think just getting a generic sound is all you need- obviously it may help if you have 'equipment'... I think the most important and therefore most convincing thing is being able to play well...
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Re: Which "sound" is "that" then?

Postby Strummer » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:24 pm

Ah well! That rules me out on everything!
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Re: Which "sound" is "that" then?

Postby Tigerdaisy » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:43 pm

Not even sure equipment is that critical... It's interesting to note that Eric Clapton used totally different equipment for the Cream revival concerts at the Albert Hall in 2005 and the major difference to my mind was that Jack Bruce was unable to hit the high notes he used to be able to. Clapton used a Strat whereas in the original Cream stuff it was all Gibson- I don't think they even used Marshall amps. Mark Knopfler often plays the Local Hero theme on a Les Paul...where originally I think he used an Ovation acoustic.
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Re: Which "sound" is "that" then?

Postby dave robinson » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:47 pm

When I refer to 'that sound' I'm talking 1960 - Apache, Man Of Mystery . . . Up to maybe Wonderful Land and the first album and first EP. There was an excitment and magic about that sound but after that for me it changed and was lost. The subsequent Shadows records were acceptable but for me the early guitar sound was THE magic.
I would add that it was the original line up that was responsible for making it special, not just Hank's guitar. I'm in no doubt that Jet was equally responsible because of his distinctive powerful bass, as was Tony and Bruce at that time. The feel changed a little as can be heard on some tunes on the second album, mostly I think because of the bass style of Licorice.
Their guidance into becoming a family act didn't help much either as far as kids were concerned, I remember despairing as The Beatles swept them aside because of them losing that edge that prevailed in the early days. Some may disagree, but that's where it changed and began going downhill, but it's only now looking back that it becomes obvious that they became 'tame' compared to what was happening around them. I suppose the writing was on the wall when mum & dad began to like them. :idea:
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Re: Which "sound" is "that" then?

Postby AlanH » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:21 pm

Yes I have to confess that I went to the record shop on my own to buy the Shads latest, and never took their singles to a party because it was not cool to like them. the girls in particular did not want to listen to them. When Mum and Dad started to like their music I stopped buying Shads records full stop. All very silly really when you look back, but image was very important at the time to most of us. I am sure I was not the only one who did that.

Cheers,
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Re: Which "sound" is "that" then?

Postby Tab » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:23 pm

My sentiments exactly!

That original Shadows line up had a special chemistry with a tight rhythm section and some lovely strolling bass lines which can be heard particularly on the 'Me and My Shadows' Cliff album in numbers like 'She's Gone'
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Re: Which "sound" is "that" then?

Postby roger mosedale » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:09 pm

...Regarding the old Shads sound, it is true in my estimation that the recording desk at Abbey Road studio had a great deal to do with it but I have noticed that when watching television programmes relating to that era, for instance FBI played on Crackerjack and other TV shows with The Shads and Cliff , Hanks sound is definitely there! Yes, that sound on stage on TV and live at the time. I had the great experience of seeing The Shadows at Cannock Danilo Picture House/Theatre in the early 60's and the sound was definitely there, exactly as it was on recordings! ... So then if you search out these TV oldies you will have to agree that sound is definitely coming out from Hanks early gear. This means then that the sound created then was due to the guitar, pickups, amp and miazzi echo. if we could get our hands on the original stuff, we would get the sound. Have a listen to those old live shows and you will hear the 'Bock' and also the 'Growl' of the bottom E. Dodge.
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Re: Which "sound" is "that" then?

Postby Tigerdaisy » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:32 am

roger mosedale wrote:...Regarding the old Shads sound, it is true in my estimation that the recording desk at Abbey Road studio had a great deal to do with it but I have noticed that when watching television programmes relating to that era, for instance FBI played on Crackerjack and other TV shows with The Shads and Cliff , Hanks sound is definitely there! Yes, that sound on stage on TV and live at the time. I had the great experience of seeing The Shadows at Cannock Danilo Picture House/Theatre in the early 60's and the sound was definitely there, exactly as it was on recordings! ... So then if you search out these TV oldies you will have to agree that sound is definitely coming out from Hanks early gear. This means then that the sound created then was due to the guitar, pickups, amp and miazzi echo. if we could get our hands on the original stuff, we would get the sound. Have a listen to those old live shows and you will hear the 'Bock' and also the 'Growl' of the bottom E. Dodge.


No, I don't really think it was equipment so much as attitude- they had a more aggressive, rock and roll attitude which got smoothed out by becoming 'family' entertainment. Listen to the attitude that's present on the original 'Cliff' LP- of course this stuff wasn't even recorded using Fender stuff, but their old original semi amateur equipment (Grimshaws which seemed to be quite popular in them days). The original Strat soon got replaced by a guitar with much less bite in the pups and one could almost be forgiven for thinking you were listening to a kind of 'Songs on Sunday' sound- well it happened gradually and was no doubt a reflection of other priorities in their lives.
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