Stars Fell on Stockton: Middle or Neck + Bridge

[fenderplucker]

Hi,

Hank's recent interview in The Guitarist magazine (May 2014) mentioned the possible use of Neck + Bridge pickups on some tunes. In the thread on this site concerning that article, Phil Kelly mentioned that the late Dick Denney had told him that he did do such a modification, but unfortunately we have no information on when that might have been done.That led to an interesting discussion on whether Stars Fell on Stockton might have been a possible candidate, amongst some other tunes. In the absence of any documentary evidence I thought it might be interesting to try the tune using the middle pickup neck + bridge pickups to see what differences might result from the one I posted using the middle pickup, and to see which was closer to the original. I had a spare switch pot of the right value and so I fitted it to my Strat so that I could get the Neck + Bridge combination wired in parallel (It might have been interesting to also try a series connection but that would have required a much more complicated switch than available to me and possibly also Dick Denney).

I spent a fair amount of time finding the best settings and mic position and finally came up with the attached sound files (2004 American Strat, CS54 pickups, 12-52 Elixirs, TVS3, AC30 clone, SM57 mic). One is the old one using the middle (M) pickup (with a couple of tweaks), one is using the combination (BN, apologies for the wrong note!) and the final one is a comparison of some short phrases with the original, the order for each segment being: Shadows, BM, Shadows, M. The latter were picked at random so as to try to not bias the outcome as much as possible. The might need to be spread over a few postings to avoid upload limits.

In general, It was interesting how close the M and BN sounds were after some equalisation, the main difference being a slightly more "juicy" sound for the BN combination but more tonal variation from note to note due to the phase cancelling or reinforcement of the two pickups that varies from note to note, particularly noticeable in the upwards or downwards runs. My feeling is that the BN combination is possibly more interesting to listen to, but overall the M recording is probably closer to the original, lacking as it does that marked tonal note to note variation. However, I am sure that others might form a different view!

All I need now is a vintage Strat and AC30, the Abbey Road studio, some condenser mics, Malcolm Addey and an 18 year old Hank!

Paul.

[fenderplucker]

The next one.

[fenderplucker]

The comparison.

[Hank2k]

Hi Paul

Im at work at present so will try and listen later on, must say i do admire the effort and attention that you put in to something like this is really incredible.

Thanks

[KurtFroberg]

Hi Paul,

First of all, many thanks for your efforts with these tests, it´s much appreciated!

Both takes are very close, but I think that the sound of B+N has the "rounder" sound which I also hear in the original. I guess this is a 50/50 mix between the pickups, but I think it might be that just "blending" in one of the pickups, not sure which, could be even closer.
That is a relatively easy modification on a strat using one of the tone pots, so when the bridge pickup is selected you blend in the neck pickup to the desired level, or vice versa, and it also don´t need any extra switch.
I think there are descriptions for doing this on the net.

Interesting discussion

Kurt

[cockroach]

I'm finding it difficult to accept that Hank had the neck & bridge setting available on his Strat 50 years ago....

The standard Strat only had one pickup switch (allowing only each pickup to be selected singly) and one master volume control. The Strat did not even get a 5 position switch (allowing two other pickup combinations) until well after the time in question.

There were Gibson, Epiphone and Guild archtop electric guitars with 3 pickups on the market before and/or contemporary with the Strat when it came out in 1954.
On these guitars there were switching and volume control circuit designs which allowed selection of each pickup, or any other combination and/or blend of pickups to the maximum of seven basic setting combinations

The Strat was a very simple design in comparison- the above models not only had switches but also individual volume and/or tone controls for each pickup. As many as seven separate controls compared with four on the Strat.

I read some years ago that Leo Fender did not like the sound of two pickups in combination, and this might be borne out by the fact that the Strat only had a three position switch for years, until market pressure led to the 5 position switch which could give those extra combinations of neck and middle, and middle and bridge, which curious users had discovered long before, by balancing the 3 position switch between settings. In fact the Telecaster also had a strange setup too- front position was the neck pickup with a capacitor giving a fixed heavy bassy tone, mid position was the neck pickup with the tone control connected and active, and the bridge position gave the bridge pickup alone with the tone control- in other words, you could only use the neck and bridge pickups on the Tele on their own, not in combinations as neck + bridge.

If Hank's guitar was modified at around that time (1961-2?) (by Dick Denney or somebody else) it would be the best kept secret of Hank's 'that sound' .....

If 34646 might have been modified years later (maybe a 5 position switch?) only Bruce would know..but if the modification was done to Hank's later Strats (the rosewood fingerboard red and/or white Strats) then nobody would know for certain or be able to prove it as I understand these guitars are no longer around.

So what other possibilities exist?

As I've said before, with certain tweaks to the amp tone controls, the sound of a Strat middle pickup on its own will sound very similar to the neck and bridge setting, assuming that neck+ bridge setting is available on the same guitar for comparison. I think a number of players (including Hank)have taken advantage of that sound over many years, including Buddy Holly!

[Rjanuarsa]

Hi Paul,

Thanks very much for your effort and time!

I have had a listen carefully on the 2 takes. They are very close to the original, BN has the proper biting character (very hard to describe the sound ) but something is still missing. Probably the blending percentage is more towards middle pickup.
I am leaning towards Neck+Bridge pickups for this tune. With Gretsch, you can control Neck and bridge pickups individually, and you can blend them as desired. I'd like to try and record using one this weekend.

TVS3 nailed the echo pretty well though!

Let's keep it going Paul! Once we solve this one, we move on to other tunes!

Regards,

Robby

[KurtFroberg]

Looking forward to your try on this, Robby!

Maybe we are back to the Gretsch theory again...? Bless Roberto!

Kurt

[Rjanuarsa]

Having said that Paul's version is the closest I have heard so far!!

Hi Kurt,

I plan to try it with the Gretsch this weekend.
It could be good but it could also be crap!
Yeah Roberto. Bless him.

Robby

[cockroach]

Hi Robbie from John in SA!

Before you try the Gretsch, try heavy strings on your Strat, middle pickup, valve amp, plenty of bass and treble and cut the middle...

See my post above!

I astounded myself years ago, when I had a proper USA Strat, and a Music Man 2x10 combo- using the above settings at a rehearsal, it sounded like Buddy Holly and also early Hank.

Then I had a vintage reissue USA '57 sunburst Strat some years later, and the middle pickup (only a 3 position switch as it was a vintage re-issue) sounded exactly like Hank on the early recordings...

These days, in old age and with not much money, I only use a Strat copy on gigs, but I have modified it to give the neck + bridge combination, and when I switch between middle only and neck + bridge in the same tune or song, there is very little difference in the timbre and tone- and that is without adjusting the tone controls on the amp.