Best strings for Precision Bass to play Shads tunes

[Iain Purdon]

Jet was the leader of the field in those times and full of talent. Let's not kid ourselves though. All those session bassists who came along later were much better players. Being like Jet isn't about reaching a standard, it's about capturing the essence of what he did. IMHO anyway!

Iain

[JimN]

Although Jet's Precision Basses, and the Fender VI, will have arrived strung with Fender flats, he did have a set of signature bass strings made by Rotosound (or whatever they were called at the time). This was a flatwound four-string EADG set under the name "Jet Bass", not to be confused with any special sets for six-string bass.

It seems that Rotosound still do the Jet Bass set, though these days, it is extended over five-string basses (and maybe even those odd BEADGC six-sring basses):

http://tinyurl.com/clkm9qr

JN

[abstamaria]

I still find it amazing how Jet managed to get that deep bass sound with an AC15 and then an AC30, using a pick.

Regards, Luigi

I gather from this very useful forum that Jet used a Leak amp and a very large and heavy speaker cabinet for the recordings at Abbey Road, Luigi. Now, on stage, I don't know what he used in the early days.

Andy

[bassboogie]

Hi Andy,

Good to hear from you. Yes Jet used a large 18inch speaker box, apparently filled with concrete, driven by a 50 watt valve amp in the studio. I believe this was the resident bass amp at Abbey Road studios at the time, there is a picture of Jet sitting next to the monster somewhere on this site. The amp was built by Peppy Rush, a man of Italian descent, hence the concrete.

Live Jet used AC15, AC30/4 and finally AC30 Bass. I maybe wrong but in the very early days he may have used a Selmer amp live.

My question is how he managed those driving bottom end basslines using these old amps and playing with a pick ? If you can, just listen to "Live at The ABC KIngston" and you'll see what I mean.

I have an AC30 Bass amp and have never heard anyone able to produce the same smooth low end basslines with this amp. You can do it by playing with your fingers but with a pick......not really.

Regards, Luigi

[dave robinson]

Hi Andy,

Good to hear from you. Yes Jet used a large 18inch speaker box, apparently filled with concrete, driven by a 50 watt valve amp in the studio. I believe this was the resident bass amp at Abbey Road studios at the time, there is a picture of Jet sitting next to the monster somewhere on this site. The amp was built by Peppy Rush, a man of Italian descent, hence the concrete.

Live Jet used AC15, AC30/4 and finally AC30 Bass. I maybe wrong but in the very early days he may have used a Selmer amp live.

My question is how he managed those driving bottom end basslines using these old amps and playing with a pick ? If you can, just listen to "Live at The ABC KIngston" and you'll see what I mean.

I have an AC30 Bass amp and have never heard anyone able to produce the same smooth low end basslines with this amp. You can do it by playing with your fingers but with a pick......not really.

Regards, Luigi

Please try to keep to the facts Luigi, the cabinet was built by Pepe Rush, the amp was a Leak.
Also, if you know what you are doing, it's quite possible to get the sound using a pick - two words TONE CONTROLS and don't forget that the live sound would never be as the record using the Vox AC30. The engineer would have had a lot to do with the big sound also.

[bassboogie]

Hi Dave,

I stand corrected.
I have the amp flat wound strung P Bass, pick but no engineer.
The only time I heard Jet live with the Shads was in Johannesburg "Live at the Colosseum" and as I recall the bass was loud and low.

Regards, Luigi

[dave robinson]

I never saw Jet in the early days, but at Shadowmania he never replicated the sound of the records - a bit like Hank I guess.

[MMStingray54]

I still find it amazing how Jet managed to get that deep bass sound with an AC15 and then an AC30, using a pick.
Does anyone know if he had a damper (sponge) in the bridge cover, as in early 60's P basses ?

Regards, Luigi

He didn't on stage, it would have sounded quite tame. I saw Licorice with an AC 30 at the City Hall Sheffield and it was pretty quiet compared to todays gear. At the same venue I saw John Rostill with the later Vox AC 30 and he had a far better sound, but nothing like Jet's sound on record.
The sound you mean is the recorded sound with the Pepe Rush concrete filled 18" speaker cab with the Leak 50 watt amp that lived in Abbey Road.

I think John Rostill is vastly under-rated. On Rise and Fall of Flingel Bunt, he's doing the Jack Bruce thing, but two years or three years before Cream. Dave, do you think John Rostill's bass amp was miked up and through the PA and Jet's wasn't, perhaps, thus making the difference?

On getting the sound, there are a number of factors I believe, and quite honestly, it's as much about technique as equipment, I think:-

a) Use of flatwounds will help - but beware, some types of flatwound strings have higher tension compared to rounds and may make it more difficult to play some of the faster stuff.
b) If Jet's bass had an ashtray it will (almost certainly unless removed) have had the felt damper inside it
c) The biggest single factor in my opinion (but not for the Kon Tiki style sound), is to pluck the strings the neck side of the pick up and to create some left hand damping - this will get a thuddy, bassy sound - you could do this with your fingers or a pick. As has been stated earlier, plucking the strings and damping with the side of the plucking hand can also help. For the Kon Tiki sound you need to pluck over the pick up with staccato notes - a bit of echo or delay might assist (I don't use it or even a pick for this - it would possibly sound better with a pick).
d) These days, it is usual for a bass player to use a clean sound (it is a clean sound on most recordings, only dirtied by the player thumping the strings hard) and in order to provide the required sound, may require two or more times the power of amp to the sum of the other instrument amps (this is to do with physics and audibility of bass frequencies compared to guitar frequencies) - how anyone could have heard the bass in an auditorium through a VOX AC 30 without PA assistance, against a drum kit and two guitars through the same power of amp escapes me! If you crank a valve bass amp up, it distorts - which is not the sound on the recordings - the reason for many bass players moving to high powered solid state in the 70s (eg John Paul Jones - Led Zeppelin and most of the R and B players). Mind you, I guess the screaming teenagers of the day would have masked some of the Cliff and the Shadows sound as well!

These days, it is common for solid state amps to be rated at 500 watts or more - the advantage is you only run them at half power and get a clean sound.

e) If you're using a Precision, having the tone control off will assist (dependent on the song). Opening the tone control will accentuate the upper mids naturally present on a Precision - putting you more in punk rock territory if using a pick.

As Jim Nugent knows, I use a 2 band Musicman Stingray bass for the Cliff and the Shadows tribute band I play in - I often pluck the strings almost above the neck/body joint, using left hand damping, to get a good low thumpy sound, but with the notes still remaining focussed - it works well in this genre - a song where it's particularly important is Move It (not Jet or any of the others on the record, I know - but typical of the genre I think). The dilemma with reproducing 60s recorded bass guitar sounds is the studio sounds could not really be reproduced live back then, but using modern equipment you can - a bit of a dilemma I guess if you're after the look as well. A Precision bass can achieve the sound using modern sound equipment - I doubt it will using vintage valve amps unless they are run at low volume with substantial PA assistance - and even then you lose the tone sculpting ability of modern amps - which can also assist with the sound.

[donna plasky]

The home page of the Jet Harris Memorial Fund has a beautiful colour photo of Jet sitting next to a large amplifier...it might be the photo you are talking about. Here is a link to the photo. The site says the photos are copyrighted, so I didn't think I should post the image itself, but this link will take you directly there.

http://jetharrismemorialfund.org/index.html


- Donna

[dave robinson]

That's the Pepe Rush speaker cabinet at Abbey Road Donna.

I saw John Rostill with The Shadows at least four times and each time they used the house PA system and no miking up of their amplifiers. John's sound was always good, through what appeared to be an AC30 bass amp.