Correct Strings Yet Again (re flatwounds this time)

[roger bayliss]

Many rockers started taking a set of 13-56 and simply disposed of the bottom E dropped them all down one place an installed a banjo string on the top E which eventually gave rise to the 10- 46 sets I guess. Many top guitarists use custom gauges so I wondered if the Shads had gone down this route by changing perhaps the odd string here and there for different characteristics in sounds. Maybe the G was eventually changed to a plain to aid bending noted later ?

[chas]

I wouldn't take too much notice of the Vox strings/Shads thing - Jennings used the Shads connection on various things such as the Hank Marvin tremelo unit (engraved with his signature) found on Phantoms and the like, and the 'Shadows guitar tutor' book I picked up in recent years is full of Vox pictures and adverts. Having said that, they were supplying the Fenders & Vox amps, so I guess trying to get some mileage out of it, and why not?

Chas.

[ELET]

In the early 60s' I lived in Lowestoft and Morlings were the only music shop in the town at that time. I think that they only sold flat wound "Monopole" and round wound "Back Diamond" and "Cathedral" strings. Most of us used flat wound Monopole strings on our electric guitars and round wound on accoustics. However, when I was hard up I'd use Cathedrals' on my electric guitar as they were cheaper but I prefered the quieter flat wounds. Black Diamond strings didn't have long lasting tonal qualities, there is, in fact, a country song called "Black Diamond Strings" highlighting this. These days we're spoilt for choice but back then I suppose if you were touring and ran out of spare strings you used what you could get.

[cockroach]

Yes, I'd read about understringing in Beat Instrumental, then I heard about using a banjo top G string for a first, so instead of 112345 all guitar strings, I then had the banjo G then guitar strings12345, which was better balanced. Before the banjo string I tried using THREE firsts- I remember I strung up like that once and then did a gig that evening- AAARRRGGHH! Total tuning chaos and embarassment! Sounded like a bad sitar!

I've read that Buddy Holly used anything he could get when touring- usually Black Diamonds - heavy gauge, either roundwound or flatwound.

The luthier guy in New York who serviced John Lennon's old black Rickenbacker said when it came in for fixing up (when John was recording Double Fantasy) that it had an unholy mix of broken rusty worn out wrong gauge flats and roundwounds!

Black Diamond strings were common in Australia in the '60's, often used 'em myself, but as we've all said, there wasn't much choice of anything guitar wise back then, and nobody could afford much anyway!

No wonder the Shads were happy using Fenders, Burns, Vox amps strings etc- they were bloody FREEBIES! Wouldn't you have been happy with that back then??!!

I still reckon Hank must have been horrified when his gear was stolen- the bugger knew he would have to BUY his own guitar after years of freebies!

[JimN]

I ... reckon Hank must have been horrified when his gear was stolen- the bugger knew he would have to BUY his own guitar after years of freebies!

I reckon that by then (1972), with the Baldwin/Burns concern out of business for two years, Hank and Bruce already considered themselves to be the owners, rather than the lessees, of their Burns guitars!

JN

[JimN]

Many rockers started taking a set of 13-56 and simply disposed of the bottom E dropped them all down one place an installed a banjo string on the top E which eventually gave rise to the 10- 46 sets I guess.

I remember that. It's certainly what Jeff Beck was doing in 1965/66. He wrote (at the time) that during the Yardbirds' 1966 USA tour, he found Ernie Ball Slinky strings which (as he said) he could "... use ... in the normal positions and still bend them".This was a revelation to be reckoned with. After that, Ernie Ball strings started to be imported to the UK and their "Slinky" 10-46 gauge eventually became the de facto "standard" gauge.

Before that (according to the grapevine of the time), the Clifford Essex company (who published the "BMG" magazine, made strings for various instruments and had a shop in the West End selling stringed instrument parts and accessories) had a "Silvering" banjo set on catalogue, and one of them happened to be gauged at about 0.010". It was adopted as the lighter string you needed for the high E in order to use the other strings in a 13-56 (not the 56) as a light gauge substitute. The trouble was that the banjo string had a looped end (like a mandolin string) and had to be looped onto the tailpiece of a Gibson or held in place by a 1" nail if used on a Strat or Tele. Eventually, the world moved forward and Clifford Essex, realising their momentary potential for market dominance, started producing the string (just that one, not the rest of the set) with a normal guitar-string-type ball end. Later, they started marketing their own version of the Ernie Ball gauged set (as well as light gauge and medium gauge).

Ah... technology...

JN

[abstamaria]

Many thanks to all. That was very informatve and new to me. It seems roundwounds and thinner gausges were more easily available in the UK tnan the US?

I asked my cousin, who as a teenager played in a Ventures/Shadows cover band here in Manila in the very early 1960s (he plays jazz professionally in Monterey, California, now), if he recalled whether he used flatwounds or roundwounds then. He said he couldn't remember! He did say he bought Pyramid strings locally. Those are very expensive strings now.

My conclusion from the comments here and elsewhere is that the first version of "Walk Don't Run," "Blue Moon," and the early Ventures hits were probably played on flatwounds, and they do sound like they were. I'm going to switch my Jazzmaster to flatwounds and see how that sounds. I have to decide whether to use .011-.048 or the probably more correct .013-.053.

The book "Walk Don't Run" says Nokie Edwards used very thin strings to allow those bends that later populated the Ventures repertoire. Like James Burton and the others in this thread, he might have used banjo strings too, but the book WDR does say he later had light-gauge string sets that he gave away to fans in Japan (they didn't have them there). So maybe Nokie first used flatwounds, too, with banjo strings perhaps, and probably later on moved to roundwound as did most every one in the mid-60s.

The puzzle for me is "Bulldog," a very early Ventures piece popular here. This has a few "deep" bends that I find difficult with medium gausge strings. It does sound like it was played on flatwound strings, but I wonder what gauge. Did Bob Bogle played lead on this?

In his interview on the DVD "Final Tour," Hank Marvin says they were surprised to look at the strings on the Stratocaster Cliff had just imported and were amazed at the size of the strings (probably flatwound!). They attributed the ability of U.S. guitarists to bend them to their diet of steak, milk, and eggs. Trying to play Bulldog on .012-.052 strings, I'm beginning to come to the same conclusion.

The other puzzle is the Shadows' "Apache." It does not sound right to my ears except on hefty roundwounds. Obviously, Hank must have played the Stratocaster on flatwounds initially. Did he move so soon to roundwounds? Would they have been available in the UK then?

Best regards,

Andres

[JimN]

The other puzzle is the Shadows' "Apache." It does not sound right to my ears except on hefty roundwounds. Obviously, Hank must have played the Stratocaster on flatwounds initially. Did he move so soon to roundwounds? Would they have been available in the UK then?

Even if the Stratocaster came supplied with flatwounds, and even if the "spare set of Fender balanced strings" ordered by Cliff along with the guitar were flatwound, this was mid-1959.

How long does a set of guitar strings last? Roundwound strings were certainly available in the UK at the time.

JN

[abstamaria]

Thanks, Jim. From what I've been told, round wounds were quite rare in the US until towards the mid 60s, a different situation from the UK. My best, Andres

[RayL]

How long does a set of guitar strings last?
JN

Sounds like the title for a new thread!

The Triumphs did a gig the other week with guest Ray Dexter (The Coalman's Lament / You Took My Love For Granted / Lonely Weekends / Just Like You, etc ) and he played what he said was a 1950s Hofner Committee guitar. From the sound of the strings, they might have been from the 1950s too!

Ray