Why 54s and not 57/62s for "that sound"

[Stratpicker]

Why is it that when in search of pups for the EARLY Shads tone many go for the 54s rather than the 57/62s?
When Hank got his first Strat and subsequent early Strats (like the rosewood necked one which quickly followed) surely by 1961 the pups in it would have been 57 onwards Fender spec pickups - ie STOCK pickups of the time, not pickups of 54 spec.
So why do we go for 54's?
cheers
Ian

[ecca]

Horrid twangy things.....

[tony parnham]

Hi Ian,
I think each type of pickup depends on what gear you use with it, or so it appears...for example, early last year I had a Mex 50's classic player which I put 57/62's on, these sounded excellent with the MS, Zoom and Quad GT. As soon as I got the TVS3 (which I don't have now incidentally) I found the 57/62's sounded dissapointing and I don't know why. My brother in Law had exactly the same guitar as I had with CS 54's fitted and they sounded very good through the TVS3 when I tried them with the same gear.
I do know that before the Cliff and Shadows tour Paul Rossitor and Gary Taylor spent quite a bit of time testing pickups with Hank to get the best vintage sound including 57/62's but they eventually plumped for the CS 54's. Strange is'nt it?
Tony

[neil2726]

I'll stick to my theory that as we get older our we dont hear what we always want to hear! My missus says I have selective hearing anyway!
In my line of work I have to take disbabled people to a disco. I find in my mature years this is a diabolical, very loud, ear shattering noise far too much bass end. Years ago it may have sounded great!

I recall in an interview DEl Shannon said he hated the modern recording sounds far to clinical and clean - he said "Give me that old hiss from the early 60s"

[rogera]

There's no doubt that your final sound depends on many factors.
I've had my '57 vintage reissue Strat with '57/'62 pickups since 2000, and until recently I had resisted all suggestions of changing the pickups to get closer to that early Hank sound.
When the Australian 'Slider' pickups came out I gave in to temptation and bought a set, and when they arrived I decided to make a recording of each of the original 57/62 pickups before changing to the new Sliders.
Once the new pickups were fitted I did the same again and then compared the results. I was very disappointed to find that I couldn't tell the difference between the two recordings.
The whole episode has led me to believe that the guitar the pickups are fitted to (body, neck, hardware etc) has a much greater effect on the final result than we give it credit for.

[dave robinson]

I have spent a lot of time and cash researching this subject and for those interested these are my own findings.
Firstly I agree with Tony, I spent a lot of time trying different pickups in different guitars eg CS54s' / 57/62s' / Seymour Duncan Alnico Pro II / Tonerider Vintage / Fender Vintage Noiseless / KInmans' - I tried all of them in alder body with rosewood board / ash body with rosewood board / ash with maple board / alder with maple board and even both types of neck in a MDF body which incidentally sounds very good. The differences were vast and some sounded awful whilst others sounded great.
This took place over about a four year period and I can't remember every detail, but I eliminated the CS54's as they always seemed too harsh, Kinmans and the Fender Noiseless didn't do it for me although they were 'nice' but no cigars, the magic 'something' lacking there .
Having said that, the USA Strat that I bought with Fender Vintage Noiseless already fitted as original equipment sounds great, maybe down to the whole thing being put together in the factory, who knows?.

My USA Strats never needed to be tampered with and the original pickups on the Masterbuilt 50th anniversary '54 reissue, the '62 Vintage reissue are second to none. The Mexican Classic Player with 57/62s' sound 'right' too, even though my experience of fitting these pickups to other guitars proved unsatisfactory.

Of the instruments that I modified I ended up with is the following;
MIJ Premium Strat which came fitted with Texas Specials which were a little too hot, replaced with the Seymour Duncan Alnico Pro II's which makes the guitar sound as an ash bodied '62 Strat should, it's definite keeper.

Mexican Classic Player 60s with rosewood board is fitted with the Toneriders - great vintage sound. Original pickups were Custom Shp 69's, which are now on a 'bitsa' guitar made up of all the spares I acquired - strangely enough it sounds good.

Old '63 Strat fitted with Sliders - as I got rid of the original pickups many years ago because the were microphonic - the Sliders are excellent and have the 'edge' and are comparable with those on the most expesive USA Strat that I own.

[roger bayliss]

I have the CS54's and 57/62's and the first thing I would point out is if you look at the Chart thats been around showing the number of windings over the early Fender years from 54 onwards its both the number of windings and thickness of the wire mostly that changes. The 54's have less windings than most and compare well to the 1959 year on windings and guage. I personally prefer the 57/62 but exactly how many windings they have I do not know because they cover several years of production but were reverse engineered of a 63 strat I think so maybe a clue there.

http://home.provide.net/~cfh/pickups.html

I did not realise till recent years that SRV No1 guitar had 59 pickups and have heard of some other top players in blues territory going back to 59 for less hotter tones which seems to contradict what I always thought blues guitarists did by going for the hotter Texas type over wound variety which of course many do.

Strange really but both HBM and SRV had guitars that probably had 59 PU winding specs. maybe the gauge and the number of windings has something to do with it ?

So maybe Sliders 59's and CS54 by Fender are not that different overall ? although scatter winding and so on may add to tones ?

Maybe the TVS is 'voiced' for the CS54 PU as well as that team certainly have used them a lot and seem to prefer them ?

I still think a good guitar setup plays a big part along with PU heights and so on and pickups can sound different on on guitar to another so many variables not least the plectrum and picking style and player.

Lets also not forget the PU's are coils with inductance and along with the capacitor and pots something called Q is affected and resonance but thats another long complicated thing requiring electroics knowledge. I understand players often mess with there volume and tone knobs or 'roll off' so maybe that affects the Q of the pickup ?

[neil2726]

Probably alot of what you get is down to luck! You can buy lots of things made on a production line on the same day, and get good and bad! Cars especially!

[ELET]

[quote="rogera"]There's no doubt that your final sound depends on many factors.
I've had my '57 vintage reissue Strat with '57/'62 pickups since 2000, and until recently I had resisted all suggestions of changing the pickups to get closer to that early Hank sound.
When the Australian 'Slider' pickups came out I gave in to temptation and bought a set, and when they arrived I decided to make a recording of each of the original 57/62 pickups before changing to the new Sliders.
Once the new pickups were fitted I did the same again and then compared the results. I was very disappointed to find that I couldn't tell the difference between the two recordings.
The whole episode has led me to believe that the guitar the pickups are fitted to (body, neck, hardware etc) has a much greater effect on the final result than we give it credit for.

I'll go along with that, you never know quite how pickups will sound 'till you put them on the guitar. 57/62s' and 54s' do have different basic sounds, the 54s' being brighter. But the only way you can tell how they'll sound on your guitar is to put them on your guitar.I have an early seymour Duncan Broacaster pickup that has over the years been on three of my Teles', It's sounded different on each one.

[Bill Bowley]

A Fender wide range Humbucker in the bridge and a PAF at the neck to add some 'backbone' to the sound seems good to me -but that's another story...............