That Other Sound

[roger bayliss]

I've got a Canon M50, but I cannot get a decent early Shadows tune out of it !

[dave robinson]

Hi Phil, Regarding my own Meazzi, I'm talking about the tone that it adds, not necessarily the echoes. I know it wasn't a tape echo that was used but there's something in the preamp circuit that adds some magic and it's apparent on the one I have. When I became ill, I discovered that my hearing was shot back then when I commented on your Meazzi having heard it at Shadowmania, but yours did sound overdriven compared to mine, though it's not difficult to get mine to act in the same way.
Since I had cancer, I have had my hearing more or less sorted out and with some very expensive technology I now hear stuff as it should be rather than missing all the top end dynamics. So yes I absolutely do stand corrected.
As for whatever type of amp Hank used on those early tunes, all I can say to you is that I had a JMI AC15 that was lent to me by a friend for a few months and it sounded spot on. The Rod Jenks A 30/4 sounds almost identical on the normal channel and that'll do for me. I did ring Rick Harrison at JMI to order the period correct amp in a TV front configuration but he wasn't prepared to honour the price printed in their catalogue at that time and was demanding £500 more for me wanting the TV front. That's when I told him stuff it and I bought the Rod Jenks amp instead. The fact is though, since I had the TVS3 I've had an accurate example from which to compare all the other machines and though rarely use it on gigs, I wouldn't be without it. Incidentally it was because my hearing was impared back in 2008 that I bought and sold my first TVS3 and I couldn't hear what the fuss was about and that was a massive mistake. Happily I survived my cancer and through it we discovered my hearing problem. Every cloud has a silver lining eh ?

[abstamaria]

It’s good you recovered well from your illness, Dave.

I’m not questioning the final result, Dave, but how to get there. Rather than program a pedal, I prefer to rely on the good work that Charlie Hall and later Paul Rossiter did and just push a button for the right patch.

But different strokes for different folks. That is just my preference. I recognise that some enjoy programming an electronic device and also that the TVS3, when available, wasn’t within everyone’s reach. It is a good thing there are pedals that provide a reasonable approximation of That Sound. With TVS3 no longer in production, they may be the only option.

Andy

[abstamaria]

IMG_3740.jpeg

(74.27 KiB) Not downloaded yet

Nowadays, my photos are mostly of guitars taken with an iPhone.

[dave robinson]

Yes Andy, I too am guilty of using the camera on my iPhone for everything these days, especially photos of guitars and gear it's a passion.

[Gatwick1946]

Just to add my thoughts on this subject: I too am a fan of "That Other Sound" as employed on Dance with The Shadows.

It is my opinion that it can only be heard on that LP and the release, in 1965, of The Sound of the Shadows? By the time of Shadowmusic, in 1966, the sound had changed, at least, to my ears?

Is Hank using the same sound on the slower numbers like Tonight and the High and the Mighty?, or is it more a case of employing a softer touch on the strings?

I do not recall many times on stage when Hank would be seen to be making adjustments to the controls on his guitar, amp or echo unit. It was more a case of a quick chat by, usually Bruce, and then quickly on with the next tune. Of course, in the recording studio there is more time to adjust the knobs and go for another take.

Kindest regards,

Christopher

[JimN]

...As the Burns was made to Hank’s specification I assume he made use of the ability to switch the neck pickup in with the bridge pickup or bridge and middle.

In fact, original sixties Burns and Baldwin Marvins (and Bisons 1964 onward) didn't have that feature. The selector switch gave the same five options as a Stratocaster switch - that is:

1 neck
2 neck and middle (tricky, but feasible)
3 middle
4 middle and bridge (tricky, but feasible)
5 bridge.

Neither of the tone pots (which worked on the neck and middle pickups, just like a Strat) was equipped with a push/pull switch.

If by chance, someone were to come across an original which did have that feature, it would be a one-off retro-fit modification, for sure.

[Moderne]

Stuart Duffy (not seen his name here for a while so I assume he no longer looks at the site) told me that Hank cut a slot in the pickguard of his Marvin so that he could lodge the pick-up selector in between the neck, middle and bridge options to get those 'out of phase' sounds which he used a lot in the mid-late '60s (Friends being a particularly good example). My original '60s Marvin still has the three position switch so I have to do this manually which takes a few seconds; not very professional! I'm guessing it would be the same for a '50s/'60s Fender Stratocaster...

[Somerset]

...As the Burns was made to Hank’s specification I assume he made use of the ability to switch the neck pickup in with the bridge pickup or bridge and middle.

In fact, original sixties Burns and Baldwin Marvins (and Bisons 1964 onward) didn't have that feature. The selector switch gave the same five options as a Stratocaster switch - that is:

1 neck
2 neck and middle (tricky, but feasible)
3 middle
4 middle and bridge (tricky, but feasible)
5 bridge.

Neither of the tone pots (which worked on the neck and middle pickups, just like a Strat) was equipped with a push/pull switch.

If by chance, someone were to come across an original which did have that feature, it would be a one-off retro-fit modification, for sure.

Interesting……..

I have never been close to an original Burns Marvin and I bought my anniversary model last year. It was supposedly unplayed and that certainly seemed to be the case as the frets and fretboard appeared to be in mint condition and the cellophane was still on the plastics. All of the original documentation was included and the “Certificate of Authenticity” states that it is a “faithful reproduction of the original”. Elsewhere it explains in detail that the scratch plates and neck joints have been reproduced “for authenticity", despite weaknesses in those original designs and materials.

These references to "faithful reproduction" and "authenticity" led me to believe that the guitar was indeed the same (not similar) to the original but what we have is a guitar that is exactly the same except for the things that are different!

So, with that in mind I am now less averse to modding it.

Has anyone made the simple change of putting the bridge pickup in the tone circuit with the middle pickup? And if so is it as easy as doing the same thing on a Strat and does it make a significant difference to the tone of the bridge pickup with the tone wide open? (I will post this question on the Burns page as well)

[nivramarvin]

The first thing I do with my Strats is solder the rear tone pot to the bridge pickup (I don't need a tone control on the middle pickup).