Headphone Left - Right - Sound Imaging

[SJB]

I tend to use phones a lot for practice - but generally do final mix on speakers.
For some time I have felt the need to decide if I should change my earphones.
Some years ago I took advice and purchased a pair of Bayer Dt100's. After some time I realised these are almost useless due to the lack of bass.
Ok apparently for vocals when the vocalist wants to hear their voice more clearly over accompaniment.

I purchased a pair of Sony MDR-XB450's and later the Wireless Phones Sennheiser HDR 120's. So now I don't use the DT100's - but alternate between the Sony and HDR's.
I find I am constantly having to alter the left - right balance when swapping - and then again if I use the speakers. So this evening I set up 4 frequency tones to check this out.
I do have a slightly lower level of hearing in the left ear - so the balance was set for the DT100 at 800. Values are "-100 centre +100" left or right and are estimates really.

Frequ 200 800 1.5K 3K
Dt100 0 0 0 +5
HDR -5 -10 -15 +20
Sony -2 +8 0 +18
Spkr 0 0 0 0

So it seems to show that the Sony phones do move the sound around.
Looking for new phones now. Thinking of open back ones.
By the way the speakers are Pr-Sonus E5 Studio Monitors - I think correctly set up.

I have reviewed the headphone posts on this site. Attack of the wallet probably coming.

[Garystrat]

Hi Stuart.

It could be to do with stereo phasing and that your Sony headphone are more sensitive to mix changes, before reaching for the wallet it might be worth checking your mix in mono.

This SOS article provides an explanation:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... emystified

Most DAW’s have a mono facility for checking the mix.

Regards

Gary

(Sorry - fixed link)

[tolo]

Stuart - I also mix using my 'phones a lot - and open back is definitely the way to go from a dynamic perspective - I use Sennheiser HD 660S with a headphone amp - and they are excellent. However - I also use these a lot - https://www.waves.com/plugins/abbey-roa ... o-3-plugin and https://www.waves.com/plugins/nx#introd ... l-mix-room - which helps give spatial and acoustic awareness of a room using headphones - and not the extreme LR isolation that we get used to when making mix decisions with headphones. Really clever technology and it kind of gives you the best of both worlds - the monitor experience - but in your ears and without disturbing the neighbours / household!

Check them out - there are demo versions.

Tony

[Garystrat]

Hi Tony,

That’s very interesting about the Waves Mix Room software, I mostly listen on headphones and your recordings always stand out dynamically, does it affect the recording as such or just the way you mix with it?

Regards

Gary

[tolo]

Hey Gary - happy new year... No - it has no impact or effect on the recording signal at all - it just simulates the room and the software replicates how we hear things without headphones - where the left and right sounds are not so discrete and separate. In real life sound is bouncing around all over the place before it reaches our ears... It means you can move your head and hear different things depending on where your ears are and where the sound waves bounce - just like they work naturally. It helps me make better mixing decisions - especially getting a better hold on the gain stage aspect, panning and also exactly how much bottom end is there (or not there) - which is a difficult one with both monitors and ‘phones.

Try the demo and let me know how you get on!

[Garystrat]

Happy New Year Tony, hope you are staying well and safe!

Really appreciate you getting back so quickly, just watched a couple of on-line videos and they are certainly very impressive!

I’m a little in limbo at the moment as I have an iMac that I planned to replaced the tail end of last year (Catalina OS, just out of date for Big Sur compatibility), but of course Apple have mixed things up a bit with their new silicon technology. I can’t see any point in getting the current 27” iMac as the whole range is shortly going to be based around variants of the M1 chip, there are rumours on one or two websites that an M2 chip is currently in development for high end models. I’m wondering if they will go with the same concept of on chip graphics or dedicated card, I believe from a previous thread you also may have the new silicon tech in your sights ?

In addition to this I have just pre-ordered the upgrade to Ableton Live 11, which is due for release in the first quarter, so at present I’m keeping my powder dry to see how all this works out. Once I get this sorted, I may give the trial version a go, but first I want to ensure there are no potential compatibility issues with my existing software.

Recognising the importance of gain staging, it’s particularly interesting that you mention this in relation to Mix Room!

Once gain, many thanks!

Regards

Gary

[tolo]

I believe from a previous thread you also may have the new silicon tech in your sights ?

Indeed Gary - I was just about to order an iMac Pro to replace my trusty but old 2011 supercharged 27" iMac - but will now wait to see what happens with the Apple silicone - particularly in regard to pricing. ProTools is very fussy - and yet to be qualified with both Big Sur and the Apple Chips - so need to be careful. I just hope my old timer can keep going... my sessions are getting bigger and bigger!

[SJB]

Hi Stuart.

It could be to do with stereo phasing and that your Sony headphone are more sensitive to mix changes, before reaching for the wallet it might be worth checking your mix in mono.

This SOS article provides an explanation:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... emystified

Most DAW’s have a mono facility for checking the mix.

Regards

Gary

(Sorry - fixed link)

Gary - I did not say but the tracks used were mono.

[SJB]

Stuart - I also mix using my 'phones a lot - and open back is definitely the way to go from a dynamic perspective - I use Sennheiser HD 660S with a headphone amp - and they are excellent. However - I also use these a lot - https://www.waves.com/plugins/abbey-roa ... o-3-plugin and https://www.waves.com/plugins/nx#introd ... l-mix-room - which helps give spatial and acoustic awareness of a room using headphones - and not the extreme LR isolation that we get used to when making mix decisions with headphones. Really clever technology and it kind of gives you the best of both worlds - the monitor experience - but in your ears and without disturbing the neighbours / household!

Check them out - there are demo versions.

Tony

Hi Tony, HD 660s - I nearly fell over at the price. I think I would need to try a pair first. If I were mixing professionally then of course you need to have the best equipment.
I will take a look at the plug-ins. I have Cakewalk Sonar Pro. I did not know about these
Back in the 70's I think - Wireless World put out a design for better headphone listening. I made one up. Basically it cross fed left to right and vice versa - but introducing phase changes. You got the impression of a wide deep sound stage - but sometimes the brain would mis understand and the stage would move behind you. Sadly its gone now.
So I need to find headphones for about half the price of the 660's.

[tolo]

Hey Stuart - try these - they are really excellent.

https://m.thomann.de/gb/audio_technica_ath_m50_xbt.htm

Not open backed - but really faithful response and will work very well without a separate headphone amp.

If you really want a good pair of open backed 'phones - a slightly older model - but these are super - I have a couple of pairs for tracking.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/beyerdynamic_dt990pro.htm