Apache - with all the wrong gear, now on YouTube

[fenderplucker]

Hi Everyone,

Maybe I should have clarified my comments. With the title of the post being "Apace-with all the wrong gear" I assumed that the objective was to show how the "wrong" gear could give a passable rendition of Apache as played by the Shadows. After all, there is no such thing as "wrong gear" per se, it could only be "wrong" within a particular context, in this case the sound of Apache. Clearly Apache can be played on anything from a saw to a pipe organ and presumably the right gear is that gear usually associated with getting the right sound (Strat/Meazzi/Vox) and so I assumed (probably wrongly, it seems) that the objective of the post was to show how close the sound of the "wrong" gear came to that of the "right" gear.

Paul.

[KurtFroberg]

Hi Dave, good playing. Are you playing along with the record? I think I can hear Hanks guitar as well...

BR Kurt

[David Martin]

Fascinating...

Good sounds from each, but, for me, the Strat has it... just!

[phil kelly]

getting the right sound (Strat/Meazzi/Vox) and so I assumed (probably wrongly, it seems) that the objective of the post was to show how close the sound of the "wrong" gear came to that of the "right" gear.

No you are not wrong, I totally agree with you Paul , also agree how can a comparison be made without doing an A B test, the thread says Apache played with the wrong gear , Dave, you say you are not interested in comparing to the record ? why ? in this video you are suggesting by using cheaper non original equipment you can attain the same sound as when using the original gear used by Hank , but this is incorrect, the fact remains of course there is gear out there which will give a shadowy sound , tell us something we dont know, but thats all, thats all this is, it is never totally on the money, whilst I appreciate not everybody can afford the original gear, it is good for them that the cheaper alternatives are out there, but thats all they are, compromises, Hanks early sound is Meazzi, strat @ vox, period , Boss Katana ? just an amp, the only other to add to that which is on the money is the TVS 3, the rest are not, its not just about echo repeats, its the tonality within such, and the dynamic responses from the magical meazzis, as well as the harmonic complexities of the old early voxes, I have the original gear and know how it sounds, and its a million miles away from what you suggest, and this is misleading to a lot of people, even having such gear in order to recreate a melody such as Apache you have to play it exactly as Hank did, positioning and phrasing, something from watching your playing you seldom do, doing your own take on things, theres nothing wrong with that , just funny as this being something you do quote in your threads that you have to do, but you dont execute yourself, no offence meant to you, just being straight.
phil

[dave robinson]

I won't get into an argument about this, I have clearly stated in two of my answers what this is about, I'm not trying to copy anybody here, I just plugged some 'wrong' guitars - and one 'right' guitar, but wrongly strung with light gauge strings and played as a regular bloke would do, through an alien echo box roughly set up, and a very modern amp attempting to give a Voxy tone. Most guys out there would be delighted with the sound achieved at such a low outlay.
That said, those of you wanting to make an argument on here about it, who allegedly have what you consider to be the 'right' gear, have still yet to get the Apache sound anywhere near the one that I bought in 1960. Only one man managed to turn my head and he plays with The Rapiers. Not even Hank on the last few tours managed it either, so let's not get upset about it eh ?
I'm just trying to save people a few quid that's all.

[phil kelly]

Dave, you never change do you, its so predictable, you say you dont want to get into an argument then you turn hostile when somebody puts their opinion up , which on a board such as this thats what you do,
I dont as you put it, allegedly have the gear, I do have the gear , but who cares, dont even think I do, even if I was to put up a soundfile playing Apache through it you of all people would most probably still dismiss that, at times it seems you believe that nobody knows about any of it more than you do and thats a pity.
you have stated that you dont consider a tape meazzi such as I used for all those years to be in the equation as it was not what was used, yet you then say that the ESE tape machine was the closest to the sound ?? based on that alone with respect I dont think you truly do know, I loved Eric but with total respect to him its a mile away.
Having a jibe about Shadowmania , just glad there was someone there besides yourself that you liked, and thats most probably a first, I rest my case, I do like people who speak straight, and will listen and stand to be corrected, but thats only if they know what they are taking about, I am not dismissing you whatsoever but you would do good to listen to those others who also do know, and dont be so self opinionated,
this is not meant as a have a go at you, could say more if that was the case, but no desire to go down that road, to old .
And to support that its a real pity you live so far away as would get together with you to give you some lessons in shadows music, not free of course, keep twangin,
phil


,

[dave robinson]

I'm not sure what your problem is Phil, why do you assume that I'm talking about you ? There were quite a few others who owned Meazzi echo boxes who didn't make it either.
I'm annoyed because you are entirely missing the point of my post. I'm not trying to sell anything or advertise any product, unlike some.
You need to wind your neck in, once again you have the wrong end of the stick, but one thing is for certain, you haven't changed.

[dave robinson]

Hi Dave, good playing. Are you playing along with the record? I think I can hear Hanks guitar as well...

BR Kurt

Hi Kurt, the BT is The Shadows with Hank removed, but there are traces of his reverb that can be heard sometimes that can't for some reason be removed.

[gibbo3272]

Hello Dave, terrific comparison and I believe you have achieved what you set out to do. Without getting into the pedantics of what gear is right or wrong the sound you achieved sounds great to me and I’m sure many other players would be happy to get that sound on budget gear. In a previous post you exposed an SX Guitar, I did purchase one new - a VTG Series - for $190 (Australian dollars), combined with a Zoom G3 or a Vox ToneLab ST (both can be purchased on the auction sites for about $A100) together with a Joyo ACtone pedal ($A50 new) and that combination can achieve a sound that many players would be satisfied with, so as you have set out to demonstrate budget or wrong gear can save us dollars (or pounds). Keep up the good work.
Geoff

[Wisey]

In fairness to Dave, the title of this thread is Apache - with all the wrong gear. Well it is Apache and it is with all the wrong gear, so you can't argue with that! You can view his video on youtube and draw your own conclusions. In my own opinion it is a good shadowy sound.

When I was getting into the shadows sound back in the 90s, I wanted to get a sound - as most of us here, similar to Hank. I was of the opinion back then that if I wanted to sound anything like Hank then I would need the similar equipment that he used. I'm purely an amateur player myself so nothing special! I remember saving up money to have new pickups and heavier gauge strings fitted to my guitar, purchasing a Vox AC30 TBX from Macari's in London, and eventually purchasing an Alesis Q20 programmed with EFTP. Obviously I had a better sound than I did, but it was still nothing to write home about! The weak link in all this is my ability as a player and it cost me a lot of money to find this out! Furthermore, I think I almost blew out all the windows of our last house with the power of that AC30!

When Shadowmania came along, it was great seeing all these tribute groups for the first time, all with their own unique sound. To me it was The Rapiers that really had the sound to die for!

Personally, watching Dave's video on youtube, I would've been happy just to achieve his sound, and he's showed us what can be done on a budget. Yes, it might not be acceptable to the purist, but for an amateur like me, if I were to watch this video back in the 90s, then it might have saved me quite a bit of money.

Steve.