Burns/Baldwin mostly ceased manufacturing by the end of 1967

[dave robinson]

Isn't there a firm in London that has a wharehouse full of old stock in guitar bodies and necks ? I used to see adverts for it in the magazines, wasn't it an Italian firm ?
Just remembered a name - Brandoni . . .

[dusty fretz]

Jon, like Ray I don't believe Jack left Baldwin with loads of bits tucked up his jumper! Your mis-conception stems from something I wrote elsewhere concerning pre-Hayman Shergold electrics, but what I actually said is as follows:

"This six-string solid was built by Shergold (Woodcrafts) Ltd., the company started in the latter '60s by ex-Burns man Jack Golder, who called this particular double-cutaway design his 'Pie Crust' model. The nickname alludes to the heavily indented edge around both front and back of the body, the visual end result being similar to the 'German Carve' construction employed on instruments from makers such as Mosrite and Rickenbacker.

The guitar was made in 1968, prior to the company building bodies and necks for Dallas Arbiter's Hayman range. In suitably modified form, the latter subsequently provided the basis for the best-known Shergolds, but before these appeared Golder was exploring other ideas on electric guitars, including a twin-cutaway semi-solid and also the Les Paul-influenced Triumph marketed by UK distributors Rosetti & Co.

The SG2 shared various features with these other late-'60s Shergolds and components common to all three included their Dutch-made Van Gent machine heads, as employed on earlier Burns/Baldwin instruments, likewise a free-standing, six-saddle bridge, the latter being partnered by a somewhat basic, bent metal string anchor. The rosewood fingerboards also came courtesy of surplus Burns/Baldwin stock, while the stylish strap buttons had similarly been used by both brands. The SG2 boasted a bolt-on sycamore neck and unusually this was secured via three 'mirror' screws, complete with chrome-dome caps.

Like its equally early Shergold stablemates, the SG2 was equipped with two German-origin pickups, these being Bill Lawrence designed, sizeable single-coils sourced from Schaller. The accompanying control layout was another common factor, comprising master volume and tone pots, while two large, toggle-type selectors governed pickup selection and additional tonal tweaking."

Just to clarify matters further, these early Shergolds certainly had various components in common with Baldwin instruments, because Jack aleady knew the supply sources for the relevant parts (Re-An, Van Gent etc.), which obviously made manufacture of his fledgling electrics that much easier. Regarding the fingerboards he employed, I believe these were originally intended for subsequently discontinued Baldwin models and therefore they were by then surplus to the company's requirements, so Jack presumably purchased them from his erstwhile employers.

Baldwin production certainly ceased in 1970, but it's impossible to pinpoint the date when actual manufacture stopped and assembly-only was maintained. However, I believe component construction proper did continue beyond 1967, as I've seen quite a few, very obviously later examples. At one time I owned a Baldwin Marvin that was definitely dated 1969, while in late-1970 I bought a brand-new Bison, back when Baldwin was touring the UK, flogging cut-price stock to music shops, literally off the back of a van!

[blackguitars.com]

Hi Paul - thanks for clarifying that!

i'm very intrigued to hear confirmation that there were indeed 1969- Marvins and Bisons, as I beleive the point of this discussion was that none were known by the discussors...

I certainly didn't mean to imply Jack had done anything illicit, all I have ever heard or knew of the man was that he was honourable even ( i think Norm said) to his own detriment! I'm sure I read somewhere that Eddie Cross was supplying fretted fingerboards to Burns since he had a very accurate pantograph machine, so wondered if the established supply-chain had been the source of those early Shergold fingerboards?

By the way, who was responsible for making the burns (etc) strap-buttons? i ave not seen them on any other guitars...?

Cheers!

Jon

[dusty fretz]

Jon,
Your question concerning who made Burns (+ Baldwin/Hayman/Shergold/Burns UK) strap buttons prompted me to delve into the research material I've amassed since The Burns Book was published. As usual, just a cursory look revealed many additional fascinating facts, most of which I've forgotten since they were first acquired, so a very necessary memory refresh is always welcome, if only to remind me just how much information is going to waste! According to this archive, early Burns metalwork came from a company called Summit Tools in Forest Gate and then from the firm of Pedley & Stacey, although I had assumed Re-An was the eventual source, as they certainly subsequently produced numerous parts for this particular bloc of British makers.

Your mention of Eddie Cross supplying Burns fingerboards offers an interesting and a viable alternative possibility that I don't seem to recall hearing before (hardly surprising these days!), so I'll certainly sound out EC Jr on the subject when I next speak with him.

Back to the thorny questions about production/manufacture/assembly dates, I've also unearthed some interesting relevant snippets and hints in the notes from my interview with the Baldwin foreman. He stated production ended in late 1969 (I don't know if that means actual or otherwise, as I didn't ask him to elaborate) and at this time the company was making 150-200 instruments per week. Bear in mind this is one man's memory and time does play tricks concerning exact facts and figures, but maybe I could come up with more corroborative evidence. It's amazing what you find when you look - I only wish I had the inclination and/or incentive to do it more often!

[dusty fretz]

I've finally had the chance of a chat with Eddie Cross, who confirms that his father's firm did indeed cut the fret slots in Burns/Baldwin fingerboards, and this was one of Eddie's 'apprentice' tasks, being a beginner in the business back then. Apparently, Burns supplied the already proportioned rosewood blanks, which were then slotted as required and position dots were also installed, these being made by the Edward Cross company, before the boards were returned to Burns for the actual fret fitting. Eddie states that once Jack Golder started up in business in the late-'60s, he preferred to handle all these production stages himself. Incidentally, Eddie's company performed the same fret slotting job for the Jim Burns operation, based in Littleport, Cambs 1979-84; another indication that, regardless of changing eras and fortunes, Jim preferred to stick with those people he knew and trusted, although the latter aspect wasn't necessarily always reciprocated!