Burns Sonic models ,early 60's

[mgeek]

knobs.jpg

since the main scratchplate was creamy-white it is possible that the cream knob was one of the originals ( I can find a bag of 5 of these, which hints that they might be what is left of the set of six). Since mine was one of the very early production ones, Jim may have simply used what he could get at some local 'radio spares' shop.

Ray

Those cream knobs were used on all the Burns-Weill guitars, so as yours is a really early one, perhaps Jim just carried on using those? As you say...they would have been pretty commonly available. Made by bulgin and also used by Roberts radios at the time

[Graylion]

[Sorry for the delay!] I would put money on the fact that there were absolutely NO "natural" wood (Sorry - timber!) finishes on any Artiste or Sonic produced by Burns. The Artiste finished production in 1962, the last ones being the De Luxe version - ironically with a Bigsby style trem! The Mk 9 I guess, as fitted to the later Sonics? Cheers, Lionel

[mgeek]

[Sorry for the delay!] I would put money on the fact that there were absolutely NO "natural" wood (Sorry - timber!) finishes on any Artiste or Sonic produced by Burns.

Fantastic! How much?

As I mentioned, or at least alluded to further down the thread, I've got pictures of a natural finished SYCAMORE vibra artist, so I'm happy to take your bet at any price you like!

[Graylion]

Sycamore? Sounds unlikely to have been a Burns timber but in any case a photo doesn't prove it was 'natural' ex-works. Many sellers have claimed natural mahogany as an ex-works finish. I was closely watching Burns guitars as a nipper (from age 15 in 1961 and never saw any natural solid electric guitars of any make. Doesn't prove anything either I'd be interested in seeing the pic - I'm sure we all would mgeek!

[RayL]

With all these queries about painted or natural finish, the real test would be to remove the control plate and inspect the routed area. Because the router leaves a rougher finish compared to the exterior body surface, it is impossible to remove all traces of spray paint without re-routing (and that would itself be obvious). A true 'natural finish' guitar will have no trace of sprayed colour in the routed area of the body, or in the routing under the truss rod cover. Bob Frost (of Moontrekkers fame) has (or certainly had) a 'natural finish' mahogany-bodied Vibra Artist but he acknowledged that it had had the paint finish removed and the body given a coat of clear varnish.

The Artist models would all have been produced at 131, with the Vibra Artist and Sonic model production moving to Cherry Tree Rise in the very casual manner described to me by Norman Houlder. Spraying was done off-site by Derek Adams. Sonic bodies were also made off-site (by O.C. Products) and since the Sonic survived as a production model much longer than the Vibra Artist I am quite prepared to believe that body finish variations of Sonics might be original.

However, the Vibra Artist was the 'top of the range' (until the Bison came along) and unless I could be shown an Artist or Vibra Artist with no trace of paint in the routings (and the routings untouched by file, scraper or router) then I believe they were all given a paint finish.

Ray

[Graylion]

I agree with you Ray, except I'm even MORE sceptical! Back in the 1980s it was popular to "dip-&-strip" doors and home timber items whereby they were put into a vat of a liquid paint remover which could strip everything. A guitar body is a relatively small item so could easily be submerged and all paint removed.
Cheers, Lionel

[mgeek]

Here you go guys. With all due respect, it's worth keeping an open mind wth Burns gear, imo, and I KNOW all that stuff about paint in cavities, chemical stripping. It's just irrelevant in this conversation. The only reason I'm still banging on about this is because I found it slightly patronising that someone would come back to my ponderings of an early anomaly with 'all sonics were red'.

Lionel- I guess my cheque's in the post - here's a natural Vibra Artist







(ps- can't remember who's guitar this is- if you object to me posting these, just say and I'll take them down)

[mgeek]

I was closely watching Burns guitars as a nipper (from age 15 in 1961 and never saw any natural solid electric guitars of any make.

Here are a few made by Burns' ex partner- not that these were the only ones mind, there are Guyatones, Musimas, Kliras, Voxes, Dallas etc that all came in a natural finish. Obviously natural mahogany wasn't as popular as maple/sycamore, but it DID exist (see third pic)

Fenton Weill Triplemaster

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/101874 ... 433A%3D%3D

Fenton Weill Twistmaster

http://guitarz.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/1 ... think.html

Hohner Amazon

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... true&rt=nc

[Graylion]

Hi McGeek. The photos certainly seem to be of a Vibra Artiste, with non-original control knobs and a replacement 3-way switch tip. The Burns Mk9 trem was fitted to the later versions of the Sonic and the final version of the Artiste - the De Luxe model. Interestingly the pics show the string bar south of the bridge, just like my Artiste from 1961. It has the screw-on bridge cover rather than the slip-on type that mine has. Sorry - I'm still not convinced that the finish is ex-works. The shape of the right-hand 'horn' seems to be more heavily rounded than others I've seen, including my own. A touch heavy-handed with a sander?

The body is quite a pleasant finish but doesn't look right with a painted neck.
Cheers, Lionel

[mgeek]

Sorry - I'm still not convinced that the finish is ex-works.

The body is quite a pleasant finish but doesn't look right with a painted neck.
Cheers, Lionel

Sorry Lionel, it looks effin' brilliant with the blown in black neck. Like a cross between a Burns and a Fenton Weill. Absolute perfection. As you'll no doubt have seen when you clicked on the images in my post above, the 'blonde/black' was a tried and tested finish formula that many people find very pleasing

And, honestly, it's clearly original. No point in being in denial about it!