Re: New Double Six with Trem
Posted:
Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:38 pm
by David Martin
Bill Bowley wrote:Graylion wrote:Perhaps a "light" set for a 6-string bass might suit - Bill? The originals were almost certainly flat-wound, or "tapewound" as we used to call them. I never got close enough to see! I only ever saw two live, in use with groups in my area, and never saw any in music shops here (Southampton). Cheers, Lionel
Lionel,
Sounds like one avenue to follow! I wonder though how many people would buy a D6 if it came fitted for the octave down set, then again obviously Barry Gibson would have done some research on the subject and that probably accounts the particular tuning options demise! Still, when you listen to the tone, it certainly is different to a 12 string (apologies for the poor standard of the clip!):roll:
I wonder to what extent the armchairs in this clip - often seen on stage with The Shads - particularly the one under the echo unit, contributed to "that" sound?
Re: New Double Six with Trem
Posted:
Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:48 pm
by Bill Bowley
David,
Your eye for detail has come to the fore again! You definitely have hit on something there......I wonder what make of chair they are?
Re: New Double Six with Trem
Posted:
Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:28 pm
by JimN
dusty fretz wrote:As I put in a previous posting, Ernie Ball offer an old-style six-string bass set that could do the job, albeit in a round-wound way. Regardless of gauge, any other strings intended for standard bass guitars will come fitted with larger ball-ends and therefore won't fit.
D'Addario do a set for the Fender Bass VI too - with ball-ends more like those on a guitar than those on the Fender-made set. I bought a set of the D'Addarios on eBay for about £12 and was able to compare directly with the spare Fender set I keep in the Bass VI's case.
Of course, the Fender and D'Addario sets (and, I assume, the Ernie Ball set) are made for a 30" scale length...
JN
Re: New Double Six with Trem
Posted:
Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:25 am
by dusty fretz
The gauges for the Ernie Ball Baritone strings are: 013, 018, 030, 044, 056, 072; while the Six-String Bass set spans: 020, 030, 042, 054, 074, 090. Both are intended for use on the Silhouette Bass, which has a 29.5" scale length, but I've successfully used the Baritone set on various other examples, right down to 25.5". The D'Addario equivalent I know of is designated XL157 and the gauges run: 014, 018, 026, 044, 056, 068.
The latest Chinese-made Burns Double 6 is indeed an impressive piece of work. In my opinion it's superior to the original in a number of ways and I ended up buying the example I reviewed.
According to Frank Allen's book, 'The Searchers And Me', the group didn't use a 12-string on 'Needles & Pins', but definitely employed the services of a standard-strung Burns Double 6 for 'When You Walk In The Room'. In contrast, Tony Hicks of The Hollies originally featured a Vox Phantom XII before eventually switching to a Rickenbacker.
The Ricky's reversed string pair arrangement obviously makes an aural difference, although the distinction can be quite subtle when heard in group context rather than isolation and of course this is apparent only on down strokes. The Byrds' recordings are often stated as classic examples of the Rickenbacker sound, but guitarist Roger McGuinn is a fingerpicker and therefore a lot of his playing involves up strokes, so the end results are actually more like a non-Ricky 12-string!
Hank's decision to use the standard-strung Double 6 on the last tour was determined by comparative performance, as apparently the octave-below version simply didn't sound up to scratch.
On the subject of on-stage furniture, Colin Pryce-Jones always tries to ensure that period- correct chairs are supplied to accommodate amplification and echo unit for The Rapiers' live performances. Appearances are obviously everything, or maybe it's all in the wood!
Re: New Double Six with Trem
Posted:
Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:11 am
by Bluesnote
Bill Bowley wrote:David,
Your eye for detail has come to the fore again! You definitely have hit on something there......I wonder what make of chair they are?
Never mind the chair, how about that pre-Michael Jackson moondance Cliff does
"NOT".
You just reminded me of the usual scour of the building for a suitable chair to sit my AC30 on when starting a gig and was too poor to afford a proper stand for said amp
Re: New Double Six with Trem
Posted:
Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:35 pm
by dusty fretz
As you say, Lionel, Frank Allen wasn't in The Searchers when they recorded 'Needles & Pins', but his book on the band has obviously been written with the help of fellow group members. I therefore assume John McNally's memory is accurate concerning the stated use of his Hofner Club 60 and Mike Pender's newly acquired Gibson ES-345, which apparently combined by accident to create the number's distinctive 12-string-like lick.
Ricky 12-stringers certainly have a signature sound, but the company's continued use of a narrow neck width makes playing them a real pain, which is why I much prefer the Burns Double 6. This model might not sound quite the same, but I can live with such sonic subtleties as there's more than enough operating space for my spatula fingers!
I agree that album covers and publicity pics provide far from accurate pointers as to who actually played what, although somewhat contradictingly, some Shadows' record sleeve shots DO confirm Bruce Welch's Telecaster connections!
Obviously Hank had his own reasons for preferring to play the standard-tuned Double 6 on the tour, although opinions were seemingly pretty unanimous concerning the aural deficiencies of the octave-under example!
Re: New Double Six with Trem
Posted:
Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:21 pm
by dusty fretz
Hi Lionel,
You're spot-on with your assessment of speaker needs for the low-strung Double 6. I have quite a collection of baritone guitars, plus a couple of old-style six-string basses and find they work really well with a 15"-equipped combo. I favour those intended for pedal steel, as this instrument is much more demanding in terms of hot output and frequency range. In fact I like sticking any guitar through such beasts as all I hear is the instrument, just louder and with no undesirable distortion or colouration.
Most 12-strings suffer from too-narrow necks, with Rickenbacker being the worst offender. I did a review round-up of a few last year and only the Burns felt comfortable for me. That said, the alternatives seem to sell okay, so perhaps I'm out of step and need to go on a digital diet! I tune my 12-stringers down to D to save breakage on the octave 'G'. This drop delivers a great deep sound but further softens string tension of course, although I don't seem to suffer from undue fret buzz, despite playing quite hard. Any electric will feel light compared to an acoustic equivalent, unless the former is strung with appropriately heavier gauges, but I'm all for an easy life these days!