New Double Six with Trem

[cockroach]

I can remember seeing Eric Haydock of the Hollies using a Burns Double Six as a bass (he also used a Fender Bass VI too)

Hank's latest Burns 12 string on the tour didn't sound too exceptional on the DVD- pity! Not like his original D6 on that old video clip of What'd I Say...

Regarding tension, there is also the question of MASS - those six bass strings in the courses may not have quite as much tension as normal concert pitch guitar strings, but their mass is considerable...a hopeful experiment could turn out disastrously!

Bill, for goodness sake, stop procrastinating with finishing that Strat 12 string!!!!

If you don't finish it soon, I demand that you remove the neck and send it over to me in Adelaide- so I can quickly knock up a 12 string TELE!!!!!

[Dance with Shadows]

Thanks Jim,

The suggestion that the modern neck might not take the strain did not come from a luthier. It was from an owner of several bass D6's who feared that I might be in for a potential disaster. He claims that the bass D6 necks were made for the set up. I don't know what were the features of the 60's design.

Perhaps if someone knows Barry Gibson and is reading this thread they might care to run the suggestion by him.

I can understand why Burns would not be interested in building bass D6's. The potential market must be incredibly small. But they do sound wonderful The lead on the track On the Beach is really something special.

regards

Michael

[Dance with Shadows]

Bill, you raise some excellent points.

I don't own any bass strings so have no way of determining whether the Gotoh bridge will take the strings. I was figuring that one would run the bass strings through the body as this would help to secure the bridge to the body. But I must admit I haven't thought this through at all. Until this thread I had absolutely no idea what were the gauges used on the bass D6's.

As for the nut will Burns sell the material?

regards

Michael

[Dance with Shadows]

Hi John,

It's not clear to me how the mass of the bass strings impacts on the neck. I don't know enough about engineering to even guess whether there is a relationship between mass and tension and if so, what it is.

I would have thought that the mass issue arises in whether the tuners will survive the pull of the bass strings. I suppose one could buy tuners from Fender designed for their 6 string bass guitar. I don't know whether they will fit the slots on the head. I don't even know whether the tuners are a real problem.

I guess the other problem is that there might not be enough travel in the Gotoh bridge saddles to get the thick bass strings off the frets. But again, I'm guessing.

regards

Michael

[dusty fretz]

The Gotoh 12-saddle bridge employed on the new Double 6 won't accommodate the larger octave-below gauges, as the extra saddles are made for just the opposite! However, it might be possible to use it simply by reversing the order, i.e. putting each thicker, octave below string behind its standard pitch partner. This would obviously affect the sound, but the aural difference between Rickenbacker 12-stringers and those from other makers isn't that great, so maybe the same will apply. Some filing/drilling would obviously be required to enlarge the baseplate feed holes and those in the rear anchor ferrules, while a new nut is naturally another necessity whatever happens down at the opposite end.

The Tune-o-Matic type bridge alternative could work, but of course it has only six saddles, so the intonation problems per each heavy/light string pairing will remain. Also be aware that the original Double 6 tuning was for octave under on ALL strings, not just the lower four.

Hank's new Double 6 employs conventional 12-string tuning and therefore can't replicate the original's deep sound on the relevant numbers.

[Bill Bowley]

Whilst thinking over this 'octave down' problem and all the mechanical 'hurdles' that need to be dealt with, it suddenly occured to me that I have a quick solution sitting here on my desk as a paperweight - ye olde BOSS 'Octaver' OC-2. This will give me an added sound either 1 or 2 octaves down, or all three or just the 'effect' sound. So, for the 'On The Beach' solo (using a Marvin or Strat) press the Octaver pedal with it pre-set to add one ocatve down, and voila!, a very similar sound to the original D6!

[Bill Bowley]

'Roach,

I take the point re the Strat XII - don't forget though, that project did start out as a Tele 12, but the Tele components 'morphed' into a re-issue Tele '72 Deluxe (to make proper use ot the set of 'wide range' Humbuckers), which you may be pleased to know is in the finishing stages this week!

[Graylion]

Perhaps a "light" set for a 6-string bass might suit - Bill? The originals were almost certainly flat-wound, or "tapewound" as we used to call them. I never got close enough to see! I only ever saw two live, in use with groups in my area, and never saw any in music shops here (Southampton). Cheers, Lionel

[Bill Bowley]

Perhaps a "light" set for a 6-string bass might suit - Bill? The originals were almost certainly flat-wound, or "tapewound" as we used to call them. I never got close enough to see! I only ever saw two live, in use with groups in my area, and never saw any in music shops here (Southampton). Cheers, Lionel

Lionel,

Sounds like one avenue to follow! I wonder though how many people would buy a D6 if it came fitted for the octave down set, then again obviously Barry Gibson would have done some research on the subject and that probably accounts the particular tuning options demise! Still, when you listen to the tone, it certainly is different to a 12 string (apologies for the poor standard of the clip!):roll:

[dusty fretz]

As I put in a previous posting, Ernie Ball offer an old-style six-string bass set that could do the job, albeit in a round-wound way. Regardless of gauge, any other strings intended for standard bass guitars will come fitted with larger ball-ends and therefore won't fit.

Barry Gibson supplied two Double 6 guitars for the last tour, one being a standard 12-string, while the second did employ octave-below stringing. After rehearsals, Hank decided to favour the former, even though the aural end results obviously didn't match those on the original recordings.