New Double Six with Trem

[David Martin]

Perhaps a "light" set for a 6-string bass might suit - Bill? The originals were almost certainly flat-wound, or "tapewound" as we used to call them. I never got close enough to see! I only ever saw two live, in use with groups in my area, and never saw any in music shops here (Southampton). Cheers, Lionel

Lionel,

Sounds like one avenue to follow! I wonder though how many people would buy a D6 if it came fitted for the octave down set, then again obviously Barry Gibson would have done some research on the subject and that probably accounts the particular tuning options demise! Still, when you listen to the tone, it certainly is different to a 12 string (apologies for the poor standard of the clip!):roll:

I wonder to what extent the armchairs in this clip - often seen on stage with The Shads - particularly the one under the echo unit, contributed to "that" sound?

[Bill Bowley]

David,

Your eye for detail has come to the fore again! You definitely have hit on something there......I wonder what make of chair they are?

[JimN]

As I put in a previous posting, Ernie Ball offer an old-style six-string bass set that could do the job, albeit in a round-wound way. Regardless of gauge, any other strings intended for standard bass guitars will come fitted with larger ball-ends and therefore won't fit.

D'Addario do a set for the Fender Bass VI too - with ball-ends more like those on a guitar than those on the Fender-made set. I bought a set of the D'Addarios on eBay for about £12 and was able to compare directly with the spare Fender set I keep in the Bass VI's case.

Of course, the Fender and D'Addario sets (and, I assume, the Ernie Ball set) are made for a 30" scale length...

JN

[Graylion]

That's interesting Paul, because when I asked Barry about doing a D6 bass-tuned he said he might if there was a demand for it. That was about 5 years ago when I bought my D6. I remember posting on the Shad's site then for people to rally round and make the demand! I expect Hank took the easy way out by using the standard 12-string tuning on tour - much easier on the fingers! After all, he isn't 21 any more! Shame as it didn't sound nearly as impressive.

My Club is the easiest action of any 12-string I've ever played in 48 years, so I rate it highly! The wide neck suits me - I wouldn't want one any narrower. I would like it to sound more like a Ricky though - like The Hollies and The Searchers. Yes, I know they had Burns but I'll argue that their recorded sound is the distinctive bass-string-dominant Ricky. One day (I've said it before! ) I intend to try and reverse the stringing. Just the bottom 'E' first to see if it sounds OK.

[dusty fretz]

The gauges for the Ernie Ball Baritone strings are: 013, 018, 030, 044, 056, 072; while the Six-String Bass set spans: 020, 030, 042, 054, 074, 090. Both are intended for use on the Silhouette Bass, which has a 29.5" scale length, but I've successfully used the Baritone set on various other examples, right down to 25.5". The D'Addario equivalent I know of is designated XL157 and the gauges run: 014, 018, 026, 044, 056, 068.

The latest Chinese-made Burns Double 6 is indeed an impressive piece of work. In my opinion it's superior to the original in a number of ways and I ended up buying the example I reviewed.

According to Frank Allen's book, 'The Searchers And Me', the group didn't use a 12-string on 'Needles & Pins', but definitely employed the services of a standard-strung Burns Double 6 for 'When You Walk In The Room'. In contrast, Tony Hicks of The Hollies originally featured a Vox Phantom XII before eventually switching to a Rickenbacker.

The Ricky's reversed string pair arrangement obviously makes an aural difference, although the distinction can be quite subtle when heard in group context rather than isolation and of course this is apparent only on down strokes. The Byrds' recordings are often stated as classic examples of the Rickenbacker sound, but guitarist Roger McGuinn is a fingerpicker and therefore a lot of his playing involves up strokes, so the end results are actually more like a non-Ricky 12-string!

Hank's decision to use the standard-strung Double 6 on the last tour was determined by comparative performance, as apparently the octave-below version simply didn't sound up to scratch.

On the subject of on-stage furniture, Colin Pryce-Jones always tries to ensure that period- correct chairs are supplied to accommodate amplification and echo unit for The Rapiers' live performances. Appearances are obviously everything, or maybe it's all in the wood!

[Bluesnote]

David,

Your eye for detail has come to the fore again! You definitely have hit on something there......I wonder what make of chair they are?

Never mind the chair, how about that pre-Michael Jackson moondance Cliff does "NOT".
You just reminded me of the usual scour of the building for a suitable chair to sit my AC30 on when starting a gig and was too poor to afford a proper stand for said amp

[Graylion]

I'm somewhat of the school of thought that "If you weren't there, you might not have all the facts" - not wishing to be controversial, but my middle name is Roberto! (Actually it's Roger and I'm still not sure about the Gretch on "Apache" ) "Needles & Pins" was recorded before Frank Allen joined The Searchers so I'm not so sure about the 12-string part. I know that Roger McGuinn finger picks but there is no mistaking the Ricky's 'reversed' stringing on the bold downstrokes to "Mr Tambourine man", "Turn, turn, turn" and others.

I hope that most of us take publicity shots and album cover photos with a pinch of salt - nice shiny, matching guitars and/or amps are not proof of their actual use in recordings! Bruce famously (?) said that he never played a Tele, but the video clips are there for all to see. I'm sure that someone like Charlie Hall would be able to prove whether or not 12-strings, 'normal' stringing or otherwise, were used on old recordings. I think it's mainly down to the MkI earhole to decide what guitars or equipment was used in ancient times! So many "Definite facts" have been disproven - which is why I mentioned Bruce's Tele as an example.

As to Hank's preference on tour - well he would say that wouldn't he? Not down to the old bones trying to press the 2-ton force needed for a 12-string bass eh? A touch of Mr. Arthur Itis is common at our age!

[dusty fretz]

As you say, Lionel, Frank Allen wasn't in The Searchers when they recorded 'Needles & Pins', but his book on the band has obviously been written with the help of fellow group members. I therefore assume John McNally's memory is accurate concerning the stated use of his Hofner Club 60 and Mike Pender's newly acquired Gibson ES-345, which apparently combined by accident to create the number's distinctive 12-string-like lick.

Ricky 12-stringers certainly have a signature sound, but the company's continued use of a narrow neck width makes playing them a real pain, which is why I much prefer the Burns Double 6. This model might not sound quite the same, but I can live with such sonic subtleties as there's more than enough operating space for my spatula fingers!

I agree that album covers and publicity pics provide far from accurate pointers as to who actually played what, although somewhat contradictingly, some Shadows' record sleeve shots DO confirm Bruce Welch's Telecaster connections!

Obviously Hank had his own reasons for preferring to play the standard-tuned Double 6 on the tour, although opinions were seemingly pretty unanimous concerning the aural deficiencies of the octave-under example!

[Graylion]

I think we pretty much agree on most things Paul. I would imagine the D6 bass wouldn't work well with a Vox AC30 of any flavour. It needs more of a bass bottom end - a 15" extension cabinet would help. Back in the early 60s the Fender Bassman was popular with lead guitarists who wanted depth rather than a very bright top-end so I expect the D6 would have sounded good. Even Marshall produced one with a 15" single speaker - I almost bought a secondhand one a few years ago for not much money! Can't remember the model name now! My old Bird Golden Eagle 25 has a Goodman Audiom 15" speaker, so it did well when I had the only amp in my group in 1962 for lead, rhythm and bass!

As to Hank's sound - I was VERY unimpressed with the failure of the audio system to reproduce the multi-tap echoes when I saw Cliff & The Shads at the O2 last year. I noticed they did a special muted break (in "Wonderful Land" wasn't it?) where the rest of the instruments were played very softly so you could get a chance to hear the echoes for the instrumental lead break. Otherwise they were conspicuous by their absence! I imagine they did this because they were aware of the failings of the system. The repeat level needed to be brought up considerably. It was the same at their reunion concert. The 'Trademark' echoes just weren't there and the sound also lacked a bright top-end. There are times when Hank needs to wind the treble up to 11!

Slimline necks on a 12 need very thin fingers don't they? I've never played a Ricky but I can see they are too slim for me and have been told as much. I once bought a beautiful new Yamaha Pacifica 12 in light denim blue with gold hardware - looked lovely but I couldn't play it! Neck too narrow so too much fret buzz when fingering near the nut. I sold it for more than I paid for it! So far that's the only guitar I've ever sold since I started playing in 1961! As you've found, the new D6 has a nice wide neck but the action is still soft. Much more so than on my 12-string acoustic. Of course this has slightly heavier strings.
I must dig out Needles & Pins and have a listen! Not done so for a while.

[dusty fretz]

Hi Lionel,
You're spot-on with your assessment of speaker needs for the low-strung Double 6. I have quite a collection of baritone guitars, plus a couple of old-style six-string basses and find they work really well with a 15"-equipped combo. I favour those intended for pedal steel, as this instrument is much more demanding in terms of hot output and frequency range. In fact I like sticking any guitar through such beasts as all I hear is the instrument, just louder and with no undesirable distortion or colouration.

Most 12-strings suffer from too-narrow necks, with Rickenbacker being the worst offender. I did a review round-up of a few last year and only the Burns felt comfortable for me. That said, the alternatives seem to sell okay, so perhaps I'm out of step and need to go on a digital diet! I tune my 12-stringers down to D to save breakage on the octave 'G'. This drop delivers a great deep sound but further softens string tension of course, although I don't seem to suffer from undue fret buzz, despite playing quite hard. Any electric will feel light compared to an acoustic equivalent, unless the former is strung with appropriately heavier gauges, but I'm all for an easy life these days!