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First off hello everyone, i've been on the board for a while but not posted, so hello

For reasons I'm not even sure of, apart from being a self confessed pop quiz trainspotter (i do have a life really!) I started looking into the chart positions of singles that didn't make the published chart (top 30, 40, 50, 75) of the time and so aren't in the Guinness Book. For the Shads and related I believe the following are correct -

Saturday Dance - 31
Tomorrow's Cancelled - 57
Goodnight Dick (HM) - 52
London's Not Too Far (HM) - 52
Love Deluxe - 80
Themes From Eastenders & Howards Way - 86
Shadowmix - 81

Telstar and The theme from Missing also charted in the top 100 but at that time the 'next 25' was listed alpahabetically so exact positions are unknown.

Do any of you more knowledgable people know of any others? As the Shads were on TV fairly regularly some people must have bought the singles, it's always been strange to me that they suddenly just stopped having hits, and then didn't even make the top 100 at all after 1982, but they must have made positions in the top 200 at least?

(part of it might be explained by the fact they stopped doing exclusive B sides, which is why my dad didn't buy any singles after 'Diamonds' except for a couple that might have appeared before the album - so if a lot of core fans did the same there were not enough casual buyers to push the singles into the chart)

and of the two that did make the top 100, they're the worst possible singles offerings that even the hardest of hardcore fans would hesitate to pay for twice!

Over to the real stat fiends... :0)

Interesting.

I remember seeing Love DeLuxe on the chart (albeit the very lower reaches) in 1978. The funny thing is, nowadays, that would be regarded as a big hit! I wonder what all these records sold to achieve their relatively lowly chart placings - and how high it would get them today? Certainly there is an argument for including all the titles you mention in the Shads listing of hit singles.

I’ve wanted to know these numbers for years. Well done!

Saturday Dance should certainly be listed as another hit. Surely it was well played on radio and sold a lot of copies. It just didn’t make it into the top 20 or whatever.

I always thought the Guinness books were biased for not listing all the hits that made the charts regardless of what was published in the official listings. How they could count up weeks on charts for all acts and publish league tables!

I don't remember all the exact sources for the information I do have, but the last two are now officially listed on the official charts. Between 1983 and 1990/1 the charts were officially expanded to the top 100 although only the top 75 were published, but the chart company website now acknowledges the lower positions so it could be argued that there are another two 'hit' singles (some might add an extra letter). Regarding Saturday Dance, I seem to recall an interview with Bruce most likely, in which he specifically mentioned the single stalling at 31 when the chart was officially the top 30. The position for Love Deluxe I got from Mr. Geddes of this parish who mentioned it in 'Foot Tapping' (NB George, you might remember corresponding with my dad in the early eighties, and once wrote back to me in c.1990 to help me with a school project on our favourite groups, when I asked you for an updated list of singles! I got an A for it, so thanks!). The others I have found digging around the internet and finding various chart scans and scraps of info, whenever I find an obscure chart position for any groups I note it in a word document I have for the purpose. For some reason the Chart compilers treat this information like a state secret, but I would imagine the groups themselves would have the info made available to them. The surprise with the Shads as I say is that the last two made some sort of impact on the general public, but the TV and radio promoted ones had seemingly no effect!

One (edit: almost two!) more for those keen enough to know!

Hank's solo release of Wonderful Land with Mark Knopfler made the giddy heights of no. 97 in the UK on 30.10.93


Turn Around and Touch Me was listed in the next 25 'Bubbling Under' for 2 weeks 1st and 8th December 1973, which means it did chart in the top 75, but positions were listed alphabetically at the time.

I would suggest that chart positions are only one measure of success and not a consistent one. Over the years since Apache, singles sales have dwindled year by year, so that a latter day No 1 did not need to sell in anything like the same large quantities. So if something made (say) No 87 in the charts, I'd have to ask "is that good? what year was it?"

Also, these charts measured sales measured over one week. Actual sales could stretch at a lower level over weeks, months, even years but the charts would give you no clue to that happening.

It would be very interesting to know exactly how many copies all these singles sold - but I imagine this is too much to hope for.

I remember reading that Woolworths ordered an initial batch of 100,000 copies of 'Don't Cry For Me Argentina', which seems like a hell of a lot! Assuming that they all sold, then this is 100,000 copies from just ONE outlet! In fact, I have read somewhere that 1979 was a very good year for singles sales.

This new book may be of interest:-

http://musicmentor0.tripod.com/book_hits_that_missed.html
.

A few more I have turned up for anyone who has the same strange interest:

Heart Of Glass - no. 173 July 1980
Diamonds - no. 132 Sep. 1983
Going Home (Theme From Local Hero) - no 112 Nov. 1983

drakula63 wrote:It would be very interesting to know exactly how many copies all these singles sold - but I imagine this is too much to hope for.

I remember reading that Woolworths ordered an initial batch of 100,000 copies of 'Don't Cry For Me Argentina', which seems like a hell of a lot! Assuming that they all sold, then this is 100,000 copies from just ONE outlet! In fact, I have read somewhere that 1979 was a very good year for singles sales.

No idea how many, but the ones I have just found also had panel sales figures.
'Diamonds' entered the charts at 132 with sales of 41, which I think equates to around 700 copies sold that week.
'Going Home' entered at 119 with sales of 50: c. 850 copies sold