Thoughts about Marvin, Welch & Farrar

[Moderne]

Regarding recent posts...Bill, you quote extensively from the Hit Parade Heroes book. It's not surprising that before the release of Please Please Me the music press didn't know how successful The Beatles were going to be as Love Me Do had only got to No. 17 in the charts. But as Iain said when Licorice announced he was leaving The Shadows, The Beatles were onto their 3rd No. 1 and England (though I agree not the rest of the world...yet) was definitely in the grips of Beatlemania. In his joke about Paul joining The Shads Hank went on to say that on reflection he wasn't suitable because he wasn't a Geordie; they needed more Geordies in the band!!

Marvin, Welch and Farrar...yes it does sound like a firm of solicitors - as Hank humorously referred to them in his introduction to the MW+F songs on the 2004 tour. But that was the fashion in the late 60s/early 70s and there are numerous other examples. I suppose at the time it was felt that using band surnames gave them a deeper more highbrow image than "The...Someones" Some of their lyrics might seem rather self-conscious and dated (or 'naff' if you prefer!) now, but again that accusation could be levelled at Crosby, Stills and Nash...Simon and Garfunkel...Ashton, Gardner and Dyke...Bachman Turner Overdrive...Hudson-Ford...
Thank goodness Hank and Bruce had the inspiration and drive to conceive and launch Marvin, Welch, Farrar with John Farrar, and what a shame the project didn't get more recognition at the time. I'm waiting for them to become a cult like Nick Drake!

Clive

[Bill Bowley]

Iain,

You have started some bells ringing with the mention of a joke by Hank re PMc playing bass -perhaps I have picked up on an article by someone else who took it seriously at some time - and I believed it .

As for The Beatles in 1963, I do concede that they had definitely begun their rapid rise in UK, but the USA (and the rest of the world) didn't explode until 1964. Although The Beatles had the No.1 UK hit in the first week of December 1963 with "She Loves You', the No.2 was 'Don't Talk To Him' by Cliff Richard and The Shadows. And, on 25 December 1963 Radio Luxembourg Top 20 Show DJ Barry Alldis selected his favourite twenty records of 1963 -top of the list was 'Bachelor Boy', so they (Cliff and The Shads ) obviously weren't a spent force yet.......

But, it is all history now.

[drakula63]

Seems like the point I was trying to make has been missed and you are right that this light hearted discussion might be in danger of heading in the wrong direction.

I think my last musings on the subject should be that, in my opinion, John Farrar's decision to come to the UK to join up with Hank and Bruce, rather than stay in Australia, probably speaks volumes. Clearly he knew where he would be better off! And I thank him for doing so, as MWF (and his incarnation of the Shadows) have given me a great deal of pleasure over the decades.

Of course, according to modern scientific thinking, there are an infinite number of alternative universes out there, in which every possible outcome of every decision ever made exists. So, if this is to be believed, there is a world out there somewhere in which John Farrar stayed in Australia and, presumably, Hank and Bruce formed a vocal duo called Marvin & Welch. Be very interesting to visit this world and see how things turned out!!! Mind you, there's probably also a world out there in which Hank and Bruce decided to go back to Newcastle in April '58 and not stay in London. Now that just doesn't bear thinking about, does it?



Cheerio.

[Moderne]

I'm sure Bert Weedon and Vic Flick would have filled the void!

Clive

[JimN]

... on 25 December 1963 Radio Luxembourg Top 20 Show DJ Barry Alldis selected his favourite twenty records of 1963 -top of the list was 'Bachelor Boy', so they (Cliff and The Shads ) obviously weren't a spent force yet.......

Don't set too much store by that!

For all his merits (and I liked him - the best of the Luxembourg English-language DJs, in my opinion), Barry - or someone - was probably paid by EMI to say that.

That's the way it was at RL at the time: totally commercially-oriented, in every way. And I liked it like that, in those days when you knew what you'd hear and when you'd hear it - before the "personality DJ" with his three hour "show" came along.

JN

[Didier]

Of course, according to modern scientific thinking, there are an infinite number of alternative universes out there, in which every possible outcome of every decision ever made exists. So, if this is to be believed, there is a world out there somewhere in which John Farrar stayed in Australia and, presumably, Hank and Bruce formed a vocal duo called Marvin & Welch. Be very interesting to visit this world and see how things turned out!!! Mind you, there's probably also a world out there in which Hank and Bruce decided to go back to Newcastle in April '58 and not stay in London. Now that just doesn't bear thinking about, does it?

Remember that Hank and Bruce formed a vocal duo, "the Geordie Boys", when they were playing at the 2i's in 1958. May be there is a world in which Tony Sheridan was there, and hired as planned to back Cliff Richard, instead of Hank and Bruce !

Didier

[captainhaddock]

Following on from the theory about alternatives, how about a world where Brian Epstein managed the Shadows instead of the Beatles ?

[George Geddes]

Following on from the theory about alternatives, how about a world where Brian Epstein managed the Shadows instead of the Beatles ?

No, that doesn't work. The whole idea of the 'many worlds' or 'multiverse' is that when a decision is taken, the universe splits at that point. Hence, there would be a world in which John Farrar decided against leaving the Strangers, or Licorice stayed with the Shadows. As far as we know, Brian Epstein was never asked to manage the Shadows... You can certainly speculate about what might have happened had he been invited to do so, but there cannot be a parallel world in which he did.

Richard Feynman was very involved in the multiverse theories, and some of his books are written for the benefit of those of us who aren't quantum physicists.

George

[captainhaddock]

Fair enough then, maybe I'll start a new thread, What if Brian Epstein had managed the Shadows ? Any takers ?

[Bill Bowley]

Captain,

Don't look to me for that line - I'm still trying to get untangled from the previous!

I will chuck in this though -let's not forget the influence of George Martin rather than Brian Epstein, after all it was the music not necessarily the management that 'made' the Beatles the legend that they became. Listen to their 'Decca' audition pre Martin for a start (Besame Mucho -'Cha Cha Cha!')....