Thoughts about Marvin, Welch & Farrar

[chas]

I've been hearing a lot recently a track on the radio by Timothy B. Schmit that could easily be mistaken for Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young - and it reminded me that CSN/CSN&Y (I assume) must have been an influence for Marvin, Welch & Farrar.
Considering how brilliant Hank, Bruce & John were at writing and performing this type of vocal harmony, I wonder whether they felt a bit frustrated at being so good at two differing styles of music, or whether they were happy to go with the flow as it were? Though they didn't make it as big as The Shadows (a hard act to follow!), they at least were able to record two albums (plus one featuring Hank & John) for posterity - I know The Shads have always featured vocals, but it must have been a bit frustrating to get requests for 'Apache' (when people recognized Hank) when you're building a career featuring close harmony vocals! I wonder if Hank and Bruce felt hindered in any way to progess further to new things, or whether they felt they'd done enough in this 'new' field was enough to satisfy themselves?

Chas.

[stratmantd]

I think it's fairly well documented that the MW&F period was very frustrating for the guys. Can you imaging being so well known and walking off-stage to the soud of your own footsteps because you wouldn't play Apache? And all because supposed fans would not accept them playing anything other than Shadows material.

Tragic!

[flingelbunt]

I loved this era of music by the guys. I spoke to Bruce Welch at length about this period, and he was full of praise for John Farrar's input, particularly as he was mainly responsible for arranging the vocal harmonies and insisted on his arrangements being followed to the letter! I think some of the songs show great maturity in their songwriting skills, and again, John was a great influence on this part of the project.

Maurice

[David Martin]

I loved the tunes, the arrangements and the harmonies, but hated the lyrics...

[Didier]

I think it's fairly well documented that the MW&F period was very frustrating for the guys. Can you imaging being so well known and walking off-stage to the soud of your own footsteps because you wouldn't play Apache? And all because supposed fans would not accept them playing anything other than Shadows material.

Tragic!

The Shadows were leaders in guitar instrumental music, but Marvin Welch & Farrar were only followers in vocal harmony music.
If you liked this kind of music, you didn't need substitutes for Crosby Stills Nash & Young, this is why Marvin Welch & Farrar never met great success.
I never liked much Crosby Stills Nash & Young, neither did I for Marvin Welch & Farrar. I know it's high quality music in both cases, but it's not the kind which appeals to me...

Didier

[drakula63]

I can honestly say that the Marvin, Welch and Farrar material, for me, is amongst the best the 'Shads' have ever recorded. Second Opinion, in particular, is possibly my favourite album of the 1970s (hence the fact that I have it four times on vinyl and twice on CD!!!!). The quality of writing, playing, singing and producing, in my opinion, is of the highest possible standard and I am assuming that many people were surprised at the time that an 'instrumental' group could be so good at singing! I know that, in some ways, they must have been influenced by The Beach Boys, Simon and Garfunkel and Crosby, Stills and Nash, but I have never heard anything, vocally, from any of these groups that is any better. Just listen to, for example, Thank Heavens I've Got You, Let's Say Goodbye or Black Eyes. Truly brilliant stuff. Maybe now that the Shadows, Cliff and the Shadows and Hank have done their reunions and Final Tours, maybe MW&F could be next? With BB on drums, Alan Tarney on bass and Alan Hawkshaw on keys. I'd pay an enormous amount of money to see that...

[stratmantd]

I can accept that the MW&F material may not be to your linking Didier; personally I think it was some of the most original, thought-provoking music that Hank and Bruce have been involved with, and what a magnificent 3rd string to their bow with John Farrar.

Having said that, it seems that, at the time, a lot of Shadows fans went to see them but would not allow them not to be The Shadows. This really was unforgivable behaviour. I have never heard of this type of behavoiur before, or since.

[des mcneill]

I can accept that the MW&F material may not be to your linking Didier; personally I think it was some of the most original, thought-provoking music that Hank and Bruce have been involved with, and what a magnificent 3rd string to their bow with John Farrar.

Having said that, it seems that, at the time, a lot of Shadows fans went to see them but would not allow them not to be The Shadows. This really was unforgivable behaviour. I have never heard of this type of behavoiur before, or since.

Try Bob Dylan going electric !!
Des.

[AlanMcKillop]

You're right Tom, that was indeed the case. I also remember when Hank started his solo tours in 1994, there were many so called fans who didn't attend simply because it wasn't The Shads.

[Moderne]

Marvin, Welch & Farrar had a much better reception for their music when they accepted that most of their audience wanted to hear Shadows hits and started to include them in the set and this continued right through to the late 70s (I think 1978 was the last time they featured MW&F material in their set until the 2004-5 Final Tour). In an ideal world, the people who attended their concerts (remember this was primarily the 'chicken-in-a-basket' cabaret circuit in the early 70s) would have judged their new songs on their own merits but in reality people go to concerts by well-known artists with a clear idea of the 'hits' they want to hear. I remember going to Squeeze concerts in the mid 90s and it was obvious that most of the audience just wanted to hear Cool for Cats, Up the Junction and one or two others; the audience talked through most of their more recent (and I thought excellent) material and it got very feeble applause.

To compound this problem, very few west coast hippy-types who might have appreciated MW&F's music would have paid any attention to them because The Shadows were totally uncool at the time. Having said all this, I would still have thought that their exposure on Cliff's TV show would have gained them some 'chart action'. The 'record company being taken by surprise by demand for the album' story has always seemed a bit unlikely to me! I wonder whether They would have been asked to represent the UK in Eurovision if MW&F had never existed.

Clive